Painless load development (mine)

[Harvey_NW]

This thread is intended to illustrate a simple method of finding a load with acceptable hunting accuracy, it certainly isn’t a treatise on real accuracy

This thread actually exemplifies that reloading is much more simple than people make it out to be, and those extensive methods that waste a bunch of components to get to the same net result are silly and unnecessary.

 

[TimberHunter]

Add another believer to this method. I’ve done this with 143eldx 140VLD and now 147 ELDM in my 6.5cm over the last few months.

In the 147 I went up to 42 grains and didn’t find pressure but found a good velocity so went with 41.7.

This is an 8 shot group at 100. Had 10 loaded up at 41.7 but the 8th one had a light ejector mark so put the magneto on to make sure I wasn’t pushing them too fast and shot the last two (these two hit 4” higher due to no can but they were within 3/4” of each other) . Velocity is 2700+- with a 24” barrel so I should be good and that specific piece of Hornady brass was probably just a little soft.

I nearly pulled my hair out a few years ago loading for a 308 and 270 that would group ok one day and not the next. That was with 3-4 shot groups increasing .3 grains at a time. Total waste of time.

My biggest take aways: if the rifle doesn’t shoot that load well, change bullet/powder. If you change a few times and still not luck, the gun is the issue. Tikka = easy button

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[sveltri]

@Formidilosus load dev starts with my 243 imp very soon, but I have a question. I’m planning on using H1000/108 eld-m which will likely prevent me from loading enough powder in the case to hit pressure. In that case would you load to 100% case fill and just test test that?

 

[HighUintas]

Going back to powder measures, I just got a used Lee perfect powder measure, the cheapo plastic one.

I did three sets of 30 charges with h4350, the first with the hopper nearly full seeing what the charge weight was, the second with it nearly full at my target charge weight, the third half full at target charge weight.

Something I found was that hopper fill didn't matter within the fill range I measured. I also varied cadence a lot before recording these charges and that doesn't seem to affect charge weight like folks say it does.

Finding charge weight nearly full
Avg 39.86gr
SD 0.159
ES 0.70

Nearly full at target charge weight
Avg 40.01gr
SD 0.132
ES 0.50

Half full at charge weight
Avg 40.00gr
SD 0.145
ES 0.66

Not bad for $20

 

[willfrye027]

Going back to powder measures, I just got a used Lee perfect powder measure, the cheapo plastic one.

I did three sets of 30 charges with h4350, the first with the hopper nearly full seeing what the charge weight was, the second with it nearly full at my target charge weight, the third half full at target charge weight.

Something I found was that hopper fill didn't matter within the fill range I measured. I also varied cadence a lot before recording these changes and that doesn't seem to affect charge weight like folks say it does.

Finding charge weight nearly full
Avg 39.86gr
SD 0.159
ES 0.70

Nearly full at target charge weight
Avg 40.01gr
SD 0.132
ES 50

Half full at charge weight
Avg 40.00gr
SD 0.145
ES 0.66

Not bad for $20

I got a harrells on a whim. Pretty nice to charge and load up 100 rounds in a few minutes! Been using the hell out of it with leverevolution and my .223

I’ve noticed certain powders to not work all that well but still unsure how this would affect accuracy at long range. At 100 yards there was no difference but had some fairly wild velocity swings/ES. Could have been a small sample size issue.

Have you done any testing with thrown charges at long distance? Somewhere near minimum terminal velocity? I’ve got steel in the mountains set up now but lost access to my 700 yard range that was essentially down the street so not really set up for that kind of testing anymore.

 

[HighUintas]

I got a harrells on a whim. Pretty nice to charge and load up 100 rounds in a few minutes! Been using the hell out of it with leverevolution and my .223

I’ve noticed certain powders to not work all that well but still unsure how this would affect accuracy at long range. At 100 yards there was no difference but had some fairly wild velocity swings/ES. Could have been a small sample size issue.

Have you done any testing with thrown charges at long distance? Somewhere near minimum terminal velocity? I’ve got steel in the mountains set up now but lost access to my 700 yard range that was essentially down the street so not really set up for that kind of testing anymore.

Not yet. Yesterday was the first I've used a thrower. I didn't load any cases, but after I get the last of my virgin brass shot I'll load 25 with the thrower and measure velocity on all of them.... If my Chrono didn't get broken. The tripod was blown over by wind on concrete the last time I used it. Maybe a good excuse to get a Garmin Xero!

 

[TimberHunter]

Going back to powder measures, I just got a used Lee perfect powder measure, the cheapo plastic one.

I did three sets of 30 charges with h4350, the first with the hopper nearly full seeing what the charge weight was, the second with it nearly full at my target charge weight, the third half full at target charge weight.

Something I found was that hopper fill didn't matter within the fill range I measured. I also varied cadence a lot before recording these charges and that doesn't seem to affect charge weight like folks say it does.

Finding charge weight nearly full
Avg 39.86gr
SD 0.159
ES 0.70

Nearly full at target charge weight
Avg 40.01gr
SD 0.132
ES 50

Half full at charge weight
Avg 40.00gr
SD 0.145
ES 0.66

Not bad for $20

Thanks for the info

For $20 that sounds like a decent setup but when it comes to consistency I can’t help but think being up to .7 grains off would create some sizeable ES fps spreads with everything else being the same?


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[HighUintas]

Thanks for the info

For $20 that sounds like a decent setup but when it comes to consistency I can’t help but think being up to .7 grains off would create some sizeable ES fps spreads with everything else being the same?


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Yes I would think so. However, my wind calling is so poor that my hunting is likely limited to about 600yd anyway. Using this thrower is mainly a way to speed up larger loading sessions for practicing positional shooting. If this load ends up being pretty stable for speed I'll be able to use it for longer range practice as well.

However, with virgin brass and this same load when weighing charge weights to an ES of 0.16ish grains (could be better but done as quickly as possible with a scale) the speed ES is 37 and SD is 10.6. That could improve with fired cases, but the virgin brass seemed to be incredibly uniform. Those speeds were measured with a Caldwell Chrono, so it's possible that the true numbers are better or worse.

We shall see.

 

[TimberHunter]

Yes I would think so. However, my wind calling is so poor that my hunting is likely limited to about 600yd anyway. Using this thrower is mainly a way to speed up larger loading sessions for practicing positional shooting. If this load ends up being pretty stable for speed I'll be able to use it for longer range practice as well.

However, with virgin brass and this same load when weighing charge weights to an ES of 0.16ish grains (could be better but done as quickly as possible with a scale) the speed ES is 37 and SD is 10.6. That could improve with fired cases, but the virgin brass seemed to be incredibly uniform. Those speeds were measured with a Caldwell Chrono, so it's possible that the true numbers are better or worse.

We shall see.

Good luck and let me know how it goes. I’m still very much learning myself and am finally getting lower ES numbers by using good brass, reading body die and a Lee collet die. And I got a Labrador because I always felt my Caldwell would throw random numbers (back then the magneto would say 2680, Caldwell would say 2676 and next mag would say 2684 and Caldwell would be like 2699). But the chronograph didn’t necessarily fix anything because I had an ES of around 40 with the magneto before I switch to better brass and body/neck size.

From my testing brass quality and neck tension seem to have great effects on ES


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[Castle Rock]

I shoot a bit of fclass but have no desire to go to the extreme reloading practices typically used
I do everything wrong
I throw my charges wit a Redding measure
I necksize with Lee dies
I use a Harris bipod
Sometimes I win, and generally I am near the top
Note the SD is 11.7 at 900 yds

 

[HighUintas]

I shoot a bit of fclass but have no desire to go to the extreme reloading practices typically used
I do everything wrong
I throw my charges wit a Redding measure
I necksize with Lee dies
I use a Harris bipod
Sometimes I win, and generally I am near the top
Note the SD is 11.7 at 900 ydsView attachment 690169

What are the most "extreme" loading practices you do, in your opinion?

 

[Castle Rock]

Like I said I don’t believe in unnecessary complication and avoid at all costs
Things that I believe are unnecessary are weighed charges, FLS when it isn’t needed, cleaning brass and primer pockets
I basically never need to trim cases because I don’t over work them

Something I do think is important is brass from the same lot

 

[StopMakingSense]

@Formidilosus thanks for dumbing this down for me. Made it much more enjoyable this year when I decided to switch from a 145 LRX after less then desirable results on a moose and goat that eventually went down.

7SAUM 162 ELDM, had H4350 on hand, a lot of F-class guys seems to shoot it so why not.

Loaded 8 rounds from 55.5 to 57.5 to 2.950” on a short action. Went to city limits, fired 8 rounds off the logging road into a pile of wood. I saw light ejector marks at 57.2

Loaded 25 rounds at 56.6 grains before I had to get going. Wish it was 30 but better then my 3 shot groups I use to do.



Moved windage over .75 MOA with horizontal dispersion I’ll say I suck, inconsistent shoulder or NPA.

Went to 450 meters the next day with a velocity guess of 2850 and using the AB CDM for a 162 ELDM. Immediate bang on at 450m and then went to 900m, a bit low, adjusted velocity a bit and bham.

 

[gerry35]

@Formidilosus thanks for dumbing this down for me. Made it much more enjoyable this year when I decided to switch from a 145 LRX after less then desirable results on a moose and goat that eventually went down.

7SAUM 162 ELDM, had H4350 on hand, a lot of F-class guys seems to shoot it so why not.

Loaded 8 rounds from 55.5 to 57.5 to 2.950” on a short action. Went to city limits, fired 8 rounds off the logging road into a pile of wood. I saw light ejector marks at 57.2

Loaded 25 rounds at 56.6 grains before I had to get going. Wish it was 30 but better then my 3 shot groups I use to do.

View attachment 694633

Moved windage over .75 MOA with horizontal dispersion I’ll say I suck, inconsistent shoulder or NPA.

Went to 450 meters the next day with a velocity guess of 2850 and using the AB CDM for a 162 ELDM. Immediate bang on at 450m and then went to 900m, a bit low, adjusted velocity a bit and bham.

View attachment 694634

Like the goat in your profile pic. Your load looks really good too.

 

[willfrye027]

I shoot a bit of fclass but have no desire to go to the extreme reloading practices typically used
I do everything wrong
I throw my charges wit a Redding measure
I necksize with Lee dies
I use a Harris bipod
Sometimes I win, and generally I am near the top
Note the SD is 11.7 at 900 ydsView attachment 690169

Heck ya that is freaking awesome!

I’ve been throwing charges with my harrells but not tested enough at distance to decide if I can ditch weighing charges. I get about .3gr ES depending on the powder..curious if you keep track of anything like that or feel certain powders are more amendable to just throwing them into the case

 

[StopMakingSense]

Ready to rock and roll for bear, thanks everyone

 

[wind gypsy]

Listened to this on a flight today and it aligns pretty close with this thread. Pick a powder and a bullet, try to keep it below pressure. Shoot a significant group size, maybe drop charge weight a bit, and rock on. Change powder if it doesn't work with your chosen bullet. They mentioned keeping brass and bullet lots consistent, i wanted to ask them if they could go back and sort the $0.18 106 tap bullets i've got into lots..

 

[reformedcitykid]

Has anyone found sorting by head stamp within manufacturers I.e. federal, lake city, etc to have a noticeable impact on their load development?

 

[Harvey_NW]

Has anyone found sorting by head stamp within manufacturers I.e. federal, lake city, etc to have a noticeable impact on their load development?

In a bolt gun, yes. Not all brass is created equal, which is why Lapua is typically the choice for precision and competition shooters. They vary by hardness and volume, and they handle pressure differently. It's pretty universally recommended not to mix head stamps for pressure and safety reasons.

Picking up range brass and loading a mild charge for plinking ammo in a gas gun is pretty common, but to answer your question I think you would sacrifice some precision by not using all the same brand of brass.

 

[reformedcitykid]

In a bolt gun, yes. Not all brass is created equal, which is why Lapua is typically the choice for precision and competition shooters. They vary by hardness and volume, and they handle pressure differently. It's pretty universally recommended not to mix head stamps for pressure and safety reasons.

Picking up range brass and loading a mild charge for plinking ammo in a gas gun is pretty common, but to answer your question I think you would sacrifice some precision by not using all the same brand of brass.

Thanks for the answer! I think I may have worded my question incorrectly however, or perhaps am using the wrong terminology. I definitely don’t mix brass, but even within the same manufacturer brass headstamps may vary by year, location of manufacture, etc. I’m guessing this doesn’t have the same variation as manufacturer to manufacturer but is it enough of a difference to worry about or spend time sorting lake city or federal brass into lots?