Painless load development (mine)

[HighUintas]

Preferred is right by you I think and only about 4-6 week wait.

Yes I'm primarily interested in Tikka takeoffs depending on caliber since they're great for factory barrels and usually available cheaply.

I have looked into them before. I'll have to try one sometime

 

[Formidilosus]

Two more rifles and loads that have never been used, no work up.

Sauer 6.5 CM. 130gr ELD-M, half a grain off of book max of BL-C (2), Hornady brass, CCI BR2 primer, 2.810 coal.

Loaded one round, shot, brass was fine. Loaded 7 more-




For the 3 shot groupers, the average of the first six rounds- 2x3 shot groups with Sauer was .4 moa. If you take the average of the last six rounds for a 2x3, it’s just under .3 moa.


Tikka 22 CM, .2 or .3 grains less than book max of IMR 4166, 88gr ELD-M seated to the boatail/shoulder junction, Alpha 6CM brass FL resized, Fed SR primer, 5 rounds to check, less than a MOA-


Another ten round group went right at 1.3 for the owner, though COAL will be shortened a tad.



Again, two more loads with no screwing around. It’s a mystery….

 

[TX_Diver]

Two more rifles and loads that have never been used, no work up.

Sauer 6.5 CM. 130gr ELD-M, half a grain off of book max of BL-C (2), Hornady brass, CCI BR2 primer, 2.810 coal.

Loaded one round, shot, brass was fine. Loaded 7 more-
View attachment 358798



For the 3 shot groupers, the average of the first six rounds- 2x3 shot groups with Sauer was .4 moa. If you take the average of the last six rounds for a 2x3, it’s just under .3 moa.


Tikka 22 CM, .2 or .3 grains less than book max of IMR 4166, 88gr ELD-M seated to the boatail/shoulder junction, Alpha 6CM brass FL resized, Fed SR primer, 5 rounds to check, less than a MOA-
View attachment 358803

Another ten round group went right at 1.3 for the owner, though COAL will be shortened a tad.



Again, two more loads with no screwing around. It’s a mystery….

When you say new rifles are you meaning new out of the box? Some people seem to get hung up on putting 50-100 rounds through a barrel before doing load development. I've got a new 6.5 CM and haven't got around to loading for it yet... Was debating if I really wanted to burn 3-4 boxes til the barrel speeds up or whatever is supposed to happen...

 

[Formidilosus]

When you say new rifles are you meaning new out of the box? Some people seem to get hung up on putting 50-100 rounds through a barrel before doing load development. I've got a new 6.5 CM and haven't got around to loading for it yet... Was debating if I really wanted to burn 3-4 boxes til the barrel speeds up or whatever is supposed to happen...

One was brand new, one has a few hundred on it.

Load work up is mostly nonsense. No one is doing what they think they are. Pick a good bullet and powder, load somewhere near the top, check for pressure, then shoot ten rounds. If it doesn’t shoot satisfactorily, change bullet or powder. Tenth grain differences in powder charges or few thousandths differences in seating depth is bullshit. The throat wears out fast enough that if that crap mattered you’d be adjusting the load every hundred rounds.

 

[Formidilosus]

Here’s the same rifle as above. That first group is on the right. This load is really for a gas gun, and 34gr wouldn’t lock back on an empty mag. Went up .5 grains until lock back. 36.5gr locked back,so loaded one round at 37.5hr. It looked good. So loaded twenty 130gr ELD-M’s with 37.5gr BLC-2 at 2.810 coal. Then loaded 6 with the same except 130gr TMK’s.

Middle group is the TMK. Should be 1.1’ish. Left group is ten 130gr ELD-M’s- .7-.8”.

Load “work up” is bullshit. That’s two different powder charges, two different bullets, and two different primers randomly and all of them will be right at 1 moa or less for ten.

For bolt guns a good barrel, with solid bedding, completely free floating, with a solid scope mounted correctly, and good components. That’s it.

 

[TX_Diver]

One was brand new, one has a few hundred on it.

Load work up is mostly nonsense. No one is doing what they think they are. Pick a good bullet and powder, load somewhere near the top, check for pressure, then shoot ten rounds. If it doesn’t shoot satisfactorily, change bullet or powder. Tenth grain differences in powder charges or few thousandths differences in seating depth is bullshit. The throat wears out fast enough that if that crap mattered you’d be adjusting the load every hundred rounds.

Sounds like some people do that lol.

I'll give it a go w/ the 6.5. T3x w/ 147 ELD-Ms and H4350. May be a few weeks but I'll get around to it. My .223 was the first I've ever really loaded for. I went the opposite way and loaded up a variety of rounds to compare different methods and was kinda bored by all of it. Would much rather find something decent and just shoot.

 

[Lawnboi]

Did a quick load development on this one. 10 shots in the back yard over a chrono followed by 10 at the range at 100. 60tmk, goal was 3000 out of my rifle. This will do.

 

[ToolMann]

Timely discussion as I'm starting loading for my wife's new rifle. The guy I learned from is definitely into the very minor adjustments in seating depth, charge weight, etc. So that is how I learned. He loads more for bench shooting, I'm a hunter. So if tenths of a grain doesn't make a difference, what difference in charge does? .5 grains? I'm loading for a Tikka so mag length sets my coal unless I modify the gun.

 

[Formidilosus]

what difference in charge does? .5 grains? I'm loading for a Tikka so mag length sets my coal unless I modify the gun.

That depends on the rifle. However I would load at mag length and would drop one grain under book max, load five, five at .5 grain under max, and 5 at max. Shoot them low to high. If no pressure signs at max, and the five are decent, load ten or fifteen and shoot a legit group. Don’t waste time with the internet .5 moa all day long when I do my part. Ten rounds under two inches at 100 yards is equivalent multiple “sub moa three round groups”.

 

[ToolMann]

That depends on the rifle. However I would load at mag length and would drop one grain under book max, load five, five at .5 grain under max, and 5 at max. Shoot them low to high. If no pressure signs at max, and the five are decent, load ten or fifteen and shoot a legit group. Don’t waste time with the internet .5 moa all day long when I do my part. Ten rounds under two inches at 100 yards is equivalent multiple “sub moa three round groups”.

Appreciate it. Shot 25 rounds last weekend before reading this . Started at minimum. Last 20 rounds were groups of 5 at max, - .5, -1, and -1.5. No pressure signs. Best groups were max and -1, but two different shooters as we. Was more just letting my wife get comfortable with the new rifle and get some rounds down range. At max I had three touching and two off with a 1.5 moa total. The -1 group was 1 2 moa. But she often outshoots me anyway. Lol. Plan is to go back with 10 of max and 10 of -1. Thoughts?

 

[Formidilosus]

The -1 group was 1 2 moa. But she often outshoots me anyway. Lol. Plan is to go back with 10 of max and 10 of -1. Thoughts?

If there weren’t pressure issues, I would just do them at max.

 

[Jimbee]

77 TMK loaded at book oal. 19 grains of LT 32, (.3 under book max). Various once fired brass. Going to use up this powder in my Tikka until I can find some 8208. 10 shots, 100 yards, under an inch.

 

[TX_Diver]

Got “lucky” again.

Loaded 10x 108gr ELD-Ms with .5gr more powder than the 115’s with the boatail at the neck/shoulder junction for a COAL of 2.750. Fired one round for pressure. All good. Loaded 19 more.

The first ten with the same zero as the 115’s-
View attachment 342345


Then guessed at 3,000fps MV, immediately turned to the 1,050 yard target, one shot, came up .2mil, the next four hit the 14” plate. Final MV of 2,970fps.

What's the theory behind putting the boattail at the neck/shoulder junction? Hadn't heard that before...

Any suggestions for picking a starting point after finding pressure signs for someone without any previous experience with a particular caliber. Have 147 ELD-Ms, Hornady Brass, and H4350 for a 6.5. Never loaded for it before though.

I spent about 250 rounds developing a .223 load (some of it purely experimental as I hadn't reloaded before and wanted to see if there was a correlation between OCW and velocity nodes, there was not for me). Would strongly prefer to do something simpler for the 6.5 after I get the barrel cut/threaded.

 

[Formidilosus]

What's the theory behind putting the boattail at the neck/shoulder junction? Hadn't heard that before...

For me it’s mainly about keeping the bearing seduce in the neck and not encroaching on powder capacity. There a donut thing as well, but I haven’t had issues with it.

Any suggestions for picking a starting point after finding pressure signs for someone without any previous experience with a particular caliber. Have 147 ELD-Ms, Hornady Brass, and H4350 for a 6.5. Never loaded for it before though.

I would personally start at 40gr and go up in .3 or .5 grain increments until pressure or velocity is found. Then load ten or fifteen and see how they shoot.

 

[deerhunter628]

If there weren’t pressure issues, I would just do them at max.

Are you concerned about the temp sensitivity of the powder you pick when you are loading at max? I have heard the blc2 powder you are using is temp sensitive. Im pretty new at reloading.

 

[Formidilosus]

Are you concerned about the temp sensitivity of the powder you pick when you are loading at max? I have heard the blc2 powder you are using is temp sensitive. Im pretty new at reloading.

Yes greatly prefer temp stable powders. That is one I just have a bunch of and therefore wanted to try.

 

[philcox]

@Formidilosus why 114 and 1050, is that hyst where you have targets, or is there something about those that make a difference? I am assuming the former, but thought I'd ask.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus why 114 and 1050, is that hyst where you have targets, or is there something about those that make a difference? I am assuming the former, but thought I'd ask.

The 114 is just where the targets where, and with a 100 yard zero for most rifles the trajectory is within .1” from 65-120 yards. 1050y is where the plate is and is above transonic.

 

[philcox]

@Formidilosus had a couple questions on some of your initial post, and then a question for sequencing on the groups:

• What do you mean by "truing" at the 1000y mark? I don't think I get it.
• Do you start the 10 round shots with a cold barrel?

Some questions about the "sequence" that you use for the 10R part:

1. Shoot single and wait 2 min between shots for barrel cool
2. Shoot groups of 3 (no real cooldown period, mimic hunt), 10 min between groups

As a side note, I didn't take your advice and I did a ladder on my current load dev (30-06, Lapua, CCI 200, Ramshot Hunter, barnes 168g TTSX). Western had a 61.6 Max for that powder and bullet. I shot a ladder, .3g increments, 60.1 - 61.9 (not much more room in case). My "node" was 61.0-61.6, so settled on 61.3 (basically what your process would have yielded). I am becoming a believer. May be my go-to at this point.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus had a couple questions on some of your initial post, and then a question for sequencing on the groups:

• What do you mean by "truing" at the 1000y mark? I don't think I get it.

It means having a zeroed rifle and shooting at distance to find required elevation, that is used to backwards calculate the muzzle velocity.

Do you start the 10 round shots with a cold barrel?

Yes. Or not if I’ve been shooting. The only issues that a properly stress relieved barrel has heating up is mirage and throat wear. However throat wear isn’t a real concern with a few 10-20 round groups in a barrels life.

Some questions about the "sequence" that you use for the 10R part:

1. Shoot single and wait 2 min between shots for barrel cool
2. Shoot groups of 3 (no real cooldown period, mimic hunt), 10 min between groups

3. Load magazines, shoot ammo. In general I average 6-8 seconds between shots. I usually let the barrel cool down a bit after one or two groups due to mirage off the barrel.