Paid load development flop, wwyd?

[bsnedeker]

Well, we have a resolution. The guy was concerned and as perplexed as I. He thinks the barrel just sped up with seasoning and that pushed it out of the preferred node. He said that in his testing things got erratic (although he was still surprised at the numbers I was seeing) once it got into the upper range of velocities. He had a file on my job and his numbers were WAYYYY better and more consistent than mine. He wasnt happy with what I experienced and wants to start over, at his expense. Wants me to send the gun and ammo all back to him. He even offered to send me a shipping label. Freak thing that he's willing to own and get to the bottom of. I expressed my expectations of ES and accuracy and he said absolutely, and that's what I should have had out of the first try. So ultimately, minor hiccup, who knows why, but ultimately we're back on the right track.

That's awesome man, let us know how it shoots when you get it back!

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[Wyobohunter]

Well, we have a resolution. The guy was concerned and as perplexed as I. He thinks the barrel just sped up with seasoning and that pushed it out of the preferred node. He said that in his testing things got erratic (although he was still surprised at the numbers I was seeing) once it got into the upper range of velocities. He had a file on my job and his numbers were WAYYYY better and more consistent than mine. He wasnt happy with what I experienced and wants to start over, at his expense. Wants me to send the gun and ammo all back to him. He even offered to send me a shipping label. Freak thing that he's willing to own and get to the bottom of. I expressed my expectations of ES and accuracy and he said absolutely, and that's what I should have had out of the first try. So ultimately, minor hiccup, who knows why, but ultimately we're back on the right track.

That is excellent news. It’s great to see him stand behind his product like that.

 

[Srp]

Glad to hear it!


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[Fatcamp]

Well, we have a resolution. The guy was concerned and as perplexed as I. He thinks the barrel just sped up with seasoning and that pushed it out of the preferred node. He said that in his testing things got erratic (although he was still surprised at the numbers I was seeing) once it got into the upper range of velocities. He had a file on my job and his numbers were WAYYYY better and more consistent than mine. He wasnt happy with what I experienced and wants to start over, at his expense. Wants me to send the gun and ammo all back to him. He even offered to send me a shipping label. Freak thing that he's willing to own and get to the bottom of. I expressed my expectations of ES and accuracy and he said absolutely, and that's what I should have had out of the first try. So ultimately, minor hiccup, who knows why, but ultimately we're back on the right track.

So who is it? Sounds like a solid option.

 

[TreeWalking]

Yeah dude, put the chronos away and shoot. You are way too in your head on this.

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Agree. Shoot 5 rounds at 300 yards. If are hitting a pie plate then that is a dead elk. I like tighter groups than a pie plate at 300 yards but I rarely shoot beyond 300 yards while hunting on a first shot which is hopefully the only shot but I do shoot until the critter is on the ground. 99.9% of my hunting success is what I do in the field before I flick the safety off and prepare to send a round down range at a critter.

 

[SDHNTR]

So who is it? Sounds like a solid option.

I’m going to refrain from full disclosure until I have the final finished results to report. At that point I will spill the beans.

 

[SDHNTR]

Also, can anyone please give me a refresher on how to send ammo? I’ve sent a firearm a bunch of times but I’ve never shipped ammo. What’s the process? What are the rules? And who’s the best carrier to use?

 

[Wyobohunter]

Oh man. I’d have the same question myself. I bet there is a way. Maybe the seller will know.

 

[BBob]

Also, can anyone please give me a refresher on how to send ammo? I’ve sent a firearm a bunch of times but I’ve never shipped ammo. What’s the process? What are the rules? And who’s the best carrier to use?

Do you even Google bruh???

How To Ship Ammunition | UPS - United States

Key considerations from UPS to keep in mind when packaging and shipping ammunition for firearms.

www.ups.com

I don't believe USPS will ship it so you'll probably have to use UPS or FedEx.

 

[FCCDerek]

Do you even Google bruh???

How To Ship Ammunition | UPS - United States

Key considerations from UPS to keep in mind when packaging and shipping ammunition for firearms.

www.ups.com

I don't believe USPS will ship it so you'll probably have to use UPS or FedEx.

Yup, has to be sent UPS ground. It's easy, they just slap a hazmat sticker on it and send it on its way. No problem at all. Glad to see he's standing by his product. Good on him!

 

[tdhanses]

So I recently had a new custom 6.5 prc built. I don’t like the load development part of reloading so immediately after the gun was built I had it shipped to an outfit for load development. Said entity will remain nameless as I’m trying to work this matter out with him now.

Eventually I get the rifle back, with the load recipe and 160 loaded rounds, loaded by this outfit, per this recipe, so I’d have enough ammo to get me going and brass to reload on my own later. Whole shebang was roughly $1400-1500, including the ammo and components used during load development (most of that was ammo and component cost).

Long story short, the ammo is accurate at short range. It will do 1/2 moa, and 3/4 easy at 100 yards. Everything seemed ok at first and I was satisfied when I first shot the gun and ammo. Then came time to cut dope and I got out the chronograph. Things went south from there.

90-100 es over 10-12 shots. Yes, with ample barrel cooling. And sometimes the fastest shots were after cooling and the slowest were on a warm barrel. Speed was just erratic, with no logical pattern. Mind you, this was with his loaded ammo, not ammo I loaded per his recipe. So my reloading process can’t be blamed. Ok, so I thought my shoot thru chrono was going wonky with light too bright or something and giving sporadic readings. I chocked it up to the chrono after that first range trip.

I was wrong. Next range trip I brought my Magnetospeed. And I brought two other rifles with known good loads. Yep, same thing, 90-100 es. And only 10-15 es on the other two rifles with known good loads. It’s not the chrono. It’s this load. I’m not satisfied. This much ES and SD is just too much for any kind of long range accuracy.

First contact with the guy he was nice but doubted my findings or at least was quite surprised. He said he got a 24 es with his workup, but he did say his shot strings were only 3 or 4. He blamed a carbon ring and copper fouling as a possible culprit. Absolutely not. Gun is clean as a whistle and was completely cleaned and verified with a borescope prior to each shooting session. I wrote down all my velocity numbers from this last session, sent to him again and am now awaiting a response.

So what would you do? I have good money in this and imo, load development involves more than just acceptable 100 yard accuracy. Should I start all over, ship the gun back to the guy and tell him to find a new load or tune this one? Should I ask for a refund for the part of the cost that was for load development (excluding the ammo)? Or should I chock the whole experience up as a loss, untwist my man panties, and do the darn load workup myself (which I am entirely capable of and have done many times, I just don’t like the tedium)? Any other suggestions?

And this is why if you want anything done right you have to do it. Hope you eventually unmask him as we need to inform members so they don’t get a similar experience or at least are aware.

Good to hear he is going to try a 2nd time, hopefully with better results.

 

[Cahunter805]

Well, we have a resolution. The guy was concerned and as perplexed as I. He thinks the barrel just sped up with seasoning and that pushed it out of the preferred node. He said that in his testing things got erratic (although he was still surprised at the numbers I was seeing) once it got into the upper range of velocities. He had a file on my job and his numbers were WAYYYY better and more consistent than mine. He wasnt happy with what I experienced and wants to start over, at his expense. Wants me to send the gun and ammo all back to him. He even offered to send me a shipping label. Freak thing that he's willing to own and get to the bottom of. I expressed my expectations of ES and accuracy and he said absolutely, and that's what I should have had out of the first try. So ultimately, minor hiccup, who knows why, but ultimately we're back on the right track.

That’s great customer service. I’m betting on that all he has to do is lower the powder charge by .5-1gr and everything will settle back down. Also using once fired brass should give him better results as well.
Glad a solution was agreed upon and definitely curious to see the 2nd round results.

 

[Axlrod]

Sounds like your ammo guy could write a "how to do the right thing" for businesses!
For me I love doing load work- I'ts probably why I have so many guns. Once I have a load worked up, I need a new challenge. LOL
I'm just finishing load development for a custom build from Alex Wheeler. His advice was use the first 100-150 rounds to fire form brass and work up to pressure. He said " don't fall in love with a load in a new barrel".
Hope all turns out well this time for you.

 

[vonb]

Load your own and get to know your rifle.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I would start by pulling some bullets and weighing the powder charge to see if they are consistent, 100 fps quite the spread.

I was gonna suggest the same but I read further and see the resolution is quite satisfactory! Congrats!

 

[MajorSpittle]

What powder/primer/bullet/brass is being used and in what gun?

What were the shooting conditions when each of you tested the load? (Temp; Altitude; Chrono Distance/Type; Clean Oiled barrel vs fouled)

I mean, I could work up a shit-tabulous load at sea level for 90 degree days with a fouled barrel...... but don't clean the barrel and take it on a hunt at 8,000ft when it is 5 degrees out and think you are going to get any where near the same results I had.

There really is no "here is a bunch of money I want rifle bullets that shot great always." You could just try various factory ammo and find something that shoot below 3/4" with a sub 20 ES for your expected hunting conditions. My $500 6.5 PRC Ruger American shoots ragged holes at 100yrds with Hornady Precision 143 ELD and had an ES of 15 for 5 rounds and 22 for 10 rounds about a month later. The only factory ammo ever tried in the rifle. (bought 2 boxes to get brass because I couldn't find any when I got the rifle). You could say this is a fluke, but my 30-06 tikka shoot 1/2 MOA groups with a couple different factory ammos ( don't have any velocity data handy for them ).

Your 6.5 PRC load will probably change after 350-600 rnds due to throat erosion and good luck with lot to lot variance if using spherical double base powder in the load.

edit: 100 ES is a lot. I would check COAL on all of them and hand load to make sure that there aren't bullets changing seating depth due to a compressed powder charge, light neck tension, and recoil in the magazine making the OAL grow. Also you could be just into the lands and that is causing the ES.

 

[N.AmericanTrophyHunts]

Bump

 

[Wyobohunter]

I’d be interested to hear the final results.

 

[SDHNTR]

He’s working on it as we speak.

 

[Ucsdryder]

He’s working on it as we speak.

Sounds like the type of guy I’d like to work with! Minus the part about someone else doing my load development. A lot is learned going through the process about that specific gun. Make sure you let us know how it ends up!!!