Paid load development flop, wwyd?

SDHNTR

WKR
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Aug 30, 2012
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So I recently had a new custom 6.5 prc built. I don’t like the load development part of reloading so immediately after the gun was built I had it shipped to an outfit for load development. Said entity will remain nameless as I’m trying to work this matter out with him now.

Eventually I get the rifle back, with the load recipe and 160 loaded rounds, loaded by this outfit, per this recipe, so I’d have enough ammo to get me going and brass to reload on my own later. Whole shebang was roughly $1400-1500, including the ammo and components used during load development (most of that was ammo and component cost).

Long story short, the ammo is accurate at short range. It will do 1/2 moa, and 3/4 easy at 100 yards. Everything seemed ok at first and I was satisfied when I first shot the gun and ammo. Then came time to cut dope and I got out the chronograph. Things went south from there.

90-100 es over 10-12 shots. Yes, with ample barrel cooling. And sometimes the fastest shots were after cooling and the slowest were on a warm barrel. Speed was just erratic, with no logical pattern. Mind you, this was with his loaded ammo, not ammo I loaded per his recipe. So my reloading process can’t be blamed. Ok, so I thought my shoot thru chrono was going wonky with light too bright or something and giving sporadic readings. I chocked it up to the chrono after that first range trip.

I was wrong. Next range trip I brought my Magnetospeed. And I brought two other rifles with known good loads. Yep, same thing, 90-100 es. And only 10-15 es on the other two rifles with known good loads. It’s not the chrono. It’s this load. I’m not satisfied. This much ES and SD is just too much for any kind of long range accuracy.

First contact with the guy he was nice but doubted my findings or at least was quite surprised. He said he got a 24 es with his workup, but he did say his shot strings were only 3 or 4. He blamed a carbon ring and copper fouling as a possible culprit. Absolutely not. Gun is clean as a whistle and was completely cleaned and verified with a borescope prior to each shooting session. I wrote down all my velocity numbers from this last session, sent to him again and am now awaiting a response.

So what would you do? I have good money in this and imo, load development involves more than just acceptable 100 yard accuracy. Should I start all over, ship the gun back to the guy and tell him to find a new load or tune this one? Should I ask for a refund for the part of the cost that was for load development (excluding the ammo)? Or should I chock the whole experience up as a loss, untwist my man panties, and do the darn load workup myself (which I am entirely capable of and have done many times, I just don’t like the tedium)? Any other suggestions?
 

sndmn11

"DADDY"
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Send the ammo back and get a refund for any un-shot ammo or send the rifle with it too and ask for a redo.

What expectations were set as far as ES/precision at X distance/velocity?
 
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SDHNTR

WKR
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Send the ammo back and get a refund for any un-shot ammo or send the rifle with it too and ask for a redo.

What expectations were set as far as ES/precision at X distance/velocity?
That’s a good question. We never discussed ES and that’s on me I suppose. I took that matter for granted. I guess I figured that a generally acceptable standard of ES would be a given. I think anyone would agree that 90-100 is too much though.

Accuracy expectations were something around 1/2 moa. Without picking nits, that was somewhat verified with a test target showing a 5/8” group. And that’s about what my shooting revealed too. Accurate enough at 100. Just lacking consistent velocity.
 

sako4me

FNG
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Jan 22, 2022
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Sounds to me like you may be more capable of accomplishing what your looking for than he is. I would ask to see what he can do for you but it sounds like you may be disappointed in the end.
 

sndmn11

"DADDY"
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That’s a good question. We never discussed ES and that’s on me I suppose. I took that matter for granted. I guess I figured that a generally acceptable standard of ES would be a given. I think anyone would agree that 90-100 is too much though.

Accuracy expectations were something around 1/2 moa. Without picking nits, that was somewhat verified with a test
How does the ammo group at long range?

target showing a 5/8” group. And that’s about what my shooting revealed too. Accurate enough at 100. Just lacking consistent velocity.
That is the next question then, does it meet that 1/2MOA expectation at whatever distance it was expected?
 
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SDHNTR

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How does the ammo group at long range?
I haven’t gotten that far. 200 is as far as I’ve shot it with OK results. I stopped wasting ammo once I identified and verified the ES issue, which I wouldn’t expect to show up noticeably in groups until 400+. I can’t imagine it will group well at distance with that much spread, so spending $4-5 a shot and burning components that are near impossible to find really is not an attractive idea under these conditions. Not to mention 120 miles and 2+ hours of driving to visit the range. So I’m hesitant to keep trying until some further agreement with the guy who did this service.
 
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SDHNTR

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That is the next question then, does it meet that 1/2MOA expectation at whatever distance it was expected?
More or less, yes. I guess if I’m a total stickler I could say his provided 5/8” group test target didn’t actually meet 1/2 moa at 100 precisely, but we discussed “about” 1/2 moa, so I guess this qualifies. My bone to pick is not with 100 yard accuracy.

Accuracy is also something highly subjective and specific to the skills of the shooter. I’ve never put much stock in accuracy guarantees as shooter skill is too much of an unknown and uncontrollable variable. But consistency in the speed of ammo is not. That is rather controllable and should be rather consistent, especially with the test rifle in-hand. Yet, it’s not in this case and that is my exclusive beef.
 
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sndmn11

"DADDY"
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More or less, yes. I guess if I’m a total stickler I could say his provided 5/8” group test target didn’t actually meet 1/2 moa at 100 precisely, but we discussed “about” 1/2 moa, so I guess this qualifies. My bone to pick is not with 100 yard accuracy.

Accuracy is also something highly subjective and specific to the skills of the shooter. I’ve never put much stock in accuracy guarantees as shooter skill is too much of an unknown and uncontrollable variable. But consistency in the speed of ammo is not. That is rather controllable and should be rather consistent, especially with the test rifle in-hand. Yet, it’s not in this case and that is my exclusive beef.
The ammo holds that 5/8MOA then at 300-600yds?
 
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SDHNTR

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The ammo holds that 5/8MOA then at 300-600yds?
See above. I haven’t shot it past 200. I’m reluctant to (for reasons stated above) as I can’t possibly see how results could be good at that range with this much ES.
 

Rifles And More

Lil-Rokslider
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Wyoming
I think no matter what happens you'll be out of luck - sounds like not enough parameters were set at the start of this process.

I'd shoot at range and see what it does ( a PITA, but I think necessary to prove your dissatisfaction).
Load some using the provided recipe and see if your rounds do better.

Sorry for your trouble.
 

EdP

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I do my own load development work and enjoy doing it. It also ensures when I am done I've met my expectations. It sounds to me like all the expectations you agreed upon were met, regardless of whether or not you are happy with other parameters. Given that, I don't think you have a legitimate beef. I understand that you may not be happy and I understand why, but it's not on your paid load developer to meet expectations that were not established at the beginning. Beyond that, I would suggest doing some basic quality checks on the loaded ammo such as CBTO and weight.
 

sndmn11

"DADDY"
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See above. I haven’t shot it past 200. I’m reluctant to (for reasons stated above) as I can’t possibly see how results could be good at that range with this much ES.
I'd go shoot it at the distance you want to proof it at. Ask the maker what solutions are possible if it does not shoot within whatever group size he says it should at whatever distance he says it will.
 

bsnedeker

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I’d stop cleaning it, put the chronograph away, and shoot it. Steady 1/2-5/8 MOA is excellent accuracy for a hunting gun. Way too much BS spewed online about “all day long”.
Buying a chrono was one of my worst investments, just makes me overthink stuff. He would have been perfectly happy with this ammo if he didn't run it through a chrono.

The other really bad investment for me was a borescope. I was perfectly happy with my cleaning process and accuracy until I actually looked at it with that scope...lol.

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