Pack Build-Along, Frame and All

[Tartan]

Hi all, first post here and it’s a doozy. I’ve decided to dive in deep and try to build my own pack and frame from the ground up. I just ordered enough raw materials and hardware to do this a couple times over (assuming I’ll have some screw-ups along the way).

Wanted to share my design thoughts and get some feedback. I’ll start with the raw materials I’ve ordered and then share the concept.

Raw materials
- 500D cordura (frame sheet shell, outer surface of harness/belt, lumbar pad shell, pack material)
- Spandura (inside surface of harness/belt, back padding on frame, lumbar pad shell)
- slip-not (lumbar pad shell)
- #69 bonded nylon thread
- ½” XPE closed cell foam
- 1/16" HDPE sheets
- 1”x3/16” 6061 aluminum bar stock
- 1”, 1.5”, and 2” webbing
- ¾” and 1” grosgrain/binding tape
- 1” and 2” sew-on Velcro
- #8 and #10 ykk coil zipper and pulls
- a large assortment of ITW hardware
- ½” grommets
- I haven’t ordered any K-clips yet. But I think those are the last items I would need.

I’m going to start with a 22” pack. And then if it turns out go for a 26”. I’m pretty blatantly copying Kifaru here for the frame, but I’m planning to go with an HPG style shoulder harness. Bag designs are fairly TBD. I’m anticipating the first design to be similar to the Kifaru Apollo, but slightly larger.

I work in Solidworks all day, so I’ve roughed out a 3D model of the frame so that I could visualize how everything would sew together. It’s missing most of the hardware and webbing, but should convey the general idea.

The biggest question in my head is if I need/want the padding on the frame around the upper back/shoulder blade area. The HPG packs have a slightly taller lumbar pad, but no padding in this area as I believe it floats slightly away from the back. If I decided to remove it, I think I would need to make the lumbar pad a bit taller and maybe a little thinner.

I’ve already mocked this up with cardboard and some random foam I had lying around. It seems to fit pretty well.

What’s everybody think? Am I crazy? Does it look like it will be ok?

Thanks in advance for any input. I will keep this thread updated with progress as it happens. First thing I'll be doing is taking some notes on machine settings for different layers of materials and stitch types.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

You have a strong enough machine to do all the frame work, that is some thick material in places? Good luck, definitely getting more complex there.

Did you consider sourcing 7075 aluminum instead?

 

[WoodBow]

I really like mock up models and that one is legit. Makes me very happy. No shame in copying proven designs. If you do not have a machine to sew the hdpe and such, you can farm that out to a local shoe shop etc. Can't wait to see the build. I hope you sew as well as you make models!

 

[Tartan]

You have a strong enough machine to do all the frame work, that is some thick material in places? Good luck, definitely getting more complex there.

Did you consider sourcing 7075 aluminum instead?

I think my machine should be able to handle it. I inherited a singer 6704 scholastic from my grandfather and had it refurbished some time ago. All metal internals and it will do every stitch I need. The only thing its lacking is a heavy flywheel. It's had no problem punching through several layers of sturdy leather. Hopefully if I take it slow it will be ok. The worst it's going to see is the HDPE, 2 layers of cordura, and 2 layers of webbing. Going to test it a bunch and I'll post the results. Just waiting for the cordura to get here.

If I can't get through the HDPE I believe I can get around it by making it more like an internal frame pack where the frame sheet just slides in. It's already going to be assembled that way, I would just have to sew on all the webbing first instead of last.

I ended up with 6061 b/c there is a metal distributor not far from where I live and they did not have any 7075 in stock. For $10 I got 20 ft of it. I believe 7075 has a better tensile strength and can always order some and swap the stays out if needed.

I'm not entirely new to sewing, but I've definitely never done anything this complex. I just like making stuff. Hoping to lean on some of you guys whenever I get stuck. So if it looks like I'm doing something stupid please speak up

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Looks like a fun project. I don't think you'll want the padding in your shoulder blade area as it might affect range of motion. I'd probably stop just below my shoulder blades.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I just like making stuff.

I hear you there.


The 6704 is all metal? Googling "singer 6704 gears" brings up plastic replacements. Yeah it was the HDPE that I was wondering about going through, I haven't tried that yet. Get some solid/sharp needs and don't be shy about changing them as needed, sharp needles makes life nicer.

 

[Tartan]

I noticed the same thing when searching for info on it. I could barely find anything on the 6704. My grandfather got it from the highschool he worked at, probably when they upgraded to newer machines.

My best guess is they just no longer offer all metal replacement parts for it. I did take the bottom plate off to take a look before I decided it needed a total overhaul and was above my skill level and took it to a repair shop. Metal frame, and all metal internals. Luckily for me the repair shop said it was very clean. The brushes on the motor needed cleaned up, the bobbin case replaced, and a standard tune up.

two mods below. The first one is similar to what I showed in the first post, just brought the padding down slightly. The second one I've attached that padding to the lumbar pad, more on the lines of the HPG. I'm leaning towards the first one, as it will give some better airflow. You'll have to imagine some curve to it.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I like the first.

 

[ckossuth]

I like the first.

X2 on the first one.

 

[COlineman78]

I have wondered if there's a way to make the back padding on a Kifaru more like an old Alpenlite frame pack that I have to try and get more airflow. It is simply a mesh that is stretched between the aluminum bars. The air flow is amazing and you don't get nearly as sweaty of a back.

The other thing I like from the Alpenlite which I have been trying to come up with a design that would work for modern frames is some sort of kickstand to allow you to stand the pack up while you are loading/unloading it.

I realize both of these features lend themselves to traditional aluminum frames, but they were my two favorite features of my old pack.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I have wondered if there's a way to make the back padding on a Kifaru more like an old Alpenlite frame pack that I have to try and get more airflow. It is simply a mesh that is stretched between the aluminum bars. The air flow is amazing and you don't get nearly as sweaty of a back.

The other thing I like from the Alpenlite which I have been trying to come up with a design that would work for modern frames is some sort of kickstand to allow you to stand the pack up while you are loading/unloading it.

I realize both of these features lend themselves to traditional aluminum frames, but they were my two favorite features of my old pack.

You ever haul an elk with that?

 

[COlineman78]

You ever haul an elk with that?

Only a quarter of one, so not a ton of weight and it was on a day hunt so not very far either. It actually carries weight very well with one major downfall: the shoulder straps. I have done plenty of backpacking trips with it at 60+ lbs and it is miserable on the shoulders. After a 10 mile round trip my traps were hurting so bad I couldn't lift my arms for a week. I picked up some ILBE shoulder straps and a belt ($25) and put them on it to get something with load lifters and it is much better. This was actually my dad's pack and it was top of the line when he bought it in the late 70s.

My improvements:
Shared album - Matt Fetig - Google Photos

 

[Hunt'nFish]

X2 on the first one.

I concur. And i also like the angle of the pads in relation to shape of shoulder blades.
Nice work. Looks like an ambitious project.
Will be following closely.
Hunt'nFish

 

[Tartan]

The cordura and thread came in. Looking forward to start playing around with it this weekend, as long as our 2 month old daughter plays nice and gives me some free time . Going to try and lay down some test stitches with different materials so I can dial in the settings. Will report back with results.

 

[jmsdad]

Looking forward to the finished pack...

BTW, where did you order the 'slip-knot' nonslip material for the lumbar pad shell? I need to order 1/2 yard for a project.

 

[DaveC]

Ambitious project, good luck!

I'd seriously recommend using 7075-T6 for your stays. 1/8" by 1" will be more than strong enough, be a bit easier to bend and hold a bend better than 3/16" 6061, and have quite a bit more spring which is nice for lighter loads. 6061 is what Kifaru uses and is more than strong enough, but 7075 is way nicer.

 

[Tartan]

BTW, where did you order the 'slip-knot' nonslip material for the lumbar pad shell? I need to order 1/2 yard for a project.

seattle fabrics has it. Direct link to it below. I only ordered a 1/4 yard. I got the "sanded" version, but they also offer a "bumpy"

Tough Tek; Non Stick Fabric

 

[Tartan]

Ambitious project, good luck!

I'd seriously recommend using 7075-T6 for your stays. 1/8" by 1" will be more than strong enough, be a bit easier to bend and hold a bend better than 3/16" 6061, and have quite a bit more spring which is nice for lighter loads. 6061 is what Kifaru uses and is more than strong enough, but 7075 is way nicer.

Thanks for the info. I'll look into getting some.

 

[COlineman78]

Ambitious project, good luck!

I'd seriously recommend using 7075-T6 for your stays. 1/8" by 1" will be more than strong enough, be a bit easier to bend and hold a bend better than 3/16" 6061, and have quite a bit more spring which is nice for lighter loads. 6061 is what Kifaru uses and is more than strong enough, but 7075 is way nicer.

How much does a 22" piece of 7075-T6 cost? If I remember right 7075 costs at least 4x as much as 6061 with just a slightly better strength to weight ratio. I agree that 7075-T6 is the best widely available aluminum alloy available and is especially good for projects where welding isn't required, but the cost may become prohibitive for such a long piece.

 

[DaveC]

6.72, custom cut; 500 - Internal server error.

Shipping is steep though.