Outserts and arrow removal from target

[PennDude]

Currently shooting an arrow paired with the Ethics Insert/Outsert system. I purchased these around three years ago. It's basically impossible to shoot into bag targets or even a Bulldog target. The collars get stuck into the target and are nearly impossible to remove.

I'm running low on arrows. Are the major brands collars less susceptible to getting stuck in bag targets? I was specifically looking at Easton's Match Grade Half-Outs but am open to other options. I'd like to have an outsert collar that fits over the arrow and an insert that extends deeper into the arrow than the outsert.

Thanks

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Any time you have a front end component larger in diameter than the shaft, you're liable to have difficulty with target extraction. The greater the diameter difference, the greater the difficulty. A hidden insert (HIT) can fix this problem, but a lot of folks use a collar along with a HIT, which reintroduces some amount of difficulty getting the arrow out of targets. Using a 6mm (or larger) arrow eliminates this problem entirely.

 

[ATL]

6mm shafts are a great option. Black Eagle Spartan and Easton Sonic 6.0 are the only two I am aware of, but both make great arrows with excellent components. I am currently shooting BE Spartan shafts.

 

[billysmals]

Mighty Mouse is correct regarding changing to the HIT system. It gets the insert deeper, but adding a collar creates the problem of removal. There is no collar you can add that won't do that. It's just the nature of the collar. Ethics offers a pretty deep insert if you use the full insert and don't break off any part. I've used them before and they are one of the deeper/longer inserts. Currently I'm using an insert from podium archery and it sits 1.5inches into the shaft. I have iron will collars and podium collars as well and both will grab a bag target. I have found that if you get a point that is larger than the collar it can minimize the grab. I found some on amazon that are like mushroom points. I have attached a few examples of something similar to what I use. Essentially you just need to find the right point that has a point that is larger than the collar and then tapers to the diameter of your collar size so you don't create another lip for the bag to catch.

 

[Ho5tile1]

I use a 5/16ths field point with my Gemini arrows with ethics inserts and sleeve and shoot them into my bulldog target it snags a little but not bad I have not lost one on it yet. Try and shoot the worn out parts. I also give them pretty hard and fast yank out if I go slow it seems to be worse.


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[Tilzbow]

If not bullet points, what type of points are you shooting? Post up a picture.

 

[Bump79]

What shaft are you shooting?

For 204 shafts the VPA Collars are a much better design than the Ethics Collars in my opinion. They taper down more. Getting a good fit is important too - if you have some wiggle room that will catch.

 

[Bump79]

Mighty Mouse is correct regarding changing to the HIT system. It gets the insert deeper, but adding a collar creates the problem of removal. There is no collar you can add that won't do that. It's just the nature of the collar. Ethics offers a pretty deep insert if you use the full insert and don't break off any part. I've used them before and they are one of the deeper/longer inserts. Currently I'm using an insert from podium archery and it sits 1.5inches into the shaft. I have iron will collars and podium collars as well and both will grab a bag target. I have found that if you get a point that is larger than the collar it can minimize the grab. I found some on amazon that are like mushroom points. I have attached a few examples of something similar to what I use. Essentially you just need to find the right point that has a point that is larger than the collar and then tapers to the diameter of your collar size so you don't create another lip for the bag to catch.

This is a good point. I use these with good luck so far

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09QHJ7DT9?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[Zac]

Dudley has been preaching this for years. It’s one of the main reasons he shoots a 5 mil with a HIT.

 

[jmez]

Outserts are the gift that keep on giving.

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[5MilesBack]

I only use HIT's, not a fan of outserts, half-outs, or collars, etc. Love the smooth streamlined transition from arrow to point.

 

[TheTone]

I just built axis with standard hits in them and using 125 grain points for targets and then going with 100 grain broadheads and 25 grain iron will collars for hunting. I shoot lots of bag targets and hate the way collars and outserts hang up. My point of impact seems to be the same both ways I’m shooting them

 

[Beendare]

Dudley has been preaching this for years. It’s one of the main reasons he shoots a 5 mil with a HIT.

Yep, 5mm or 6mm....I've said it for years after using the Bemans in the 80's and 90's, the skinny 4mm shafts are a problem looking for a solution.

 

[butcherboy]

I only use HIT's, not a fan of outserts, half-outs, or collars, etc. Love the smooth streamlined transition from arrow to point.

Yep, I will not use a collar. I think it’s a created problem that influencers spread like wildfire.

 

[danwattsmessick]

One of the reasons I switched back to a 6mm shaft. I haven’t had to buy a block target in years until I started shooting half outs + a collar on a 5mm arrow. Bought a new one this year after wearing my old block out. My bag target hasn’t had any use in over a year. I prefer being able to shoot into a bag daily vs. a block.

 

[Shawn_Guinn]

I just went to glue in tips first for target then I had an idea why not glue in broadheads so this season I’m using glue in Thrives in my .166 arrows. I can practice with the exact weights and any standard target. Hoping the trend for continues and more companies offer .166 glue options. If I wasn’t shooting these I would go back to Spartan 6mm in a heartbeat great arrow.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Hoping the trend for continues and more companies offer .166 glue options.

FYI even though they're designed to be used with a HIT, any Deep Six broadhead can be glued directly in a .166"/4mm shaft (without a HIT). Still not a lot of Deep Six broadhead options out there though.

 

[Shawn_Guinn]

Yep but I like the length I get by adding the weights to the back seems like a very stable platform in my mind it strengthens the first 3 inches of the shaft. Do any of the deep six heads allow for screw on weights?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Yep but I like the length I get by adding the weights to the back seems like a very stable platform in my mind it strengthens the first 3 inches of the shaft. Do any of the deep six heads allow for screw on weights?

Not that I know of.

You could thread a HIT onto a Deep Six broadhead to get the extra weight and length you want then glue the whole thing in. Ethics and Iron Will sell Deep Six HIT's in a variety of lengths/weights.

 

[Shawn_Guinn]

Yeah I can utilize the Snyder core system from iron Will. I’m just not ready to make that leap in cash . I’m waiting for trifecta to get the ones I want in 160 back in stock. I’m comfortable with thrives I would like to have a fixed head in the quiver as well.