outfitters gone wild

[flyingbrass]

i had an outfitter die on me after I sent him the money.

 

[Duk Dog]

Perhaps contact the outfitters association for the state they outfit in. They may have a way to help resolve things?

 

[Whaledriver]

Did you pay with a credit card by chance? If so dispute the charges. If you paid with check contact your bank, they may have a fraud protection of some sort. If you paid with a usps money order, open a fraud claim. Many avenues to explore before venturing down a lawyer maze.

 

[husky390]

They are also required to hold a permit with the Forest Service. That might be another tool in your box to use to raise hell with this guy if he doesn't refund you your money. Hope you get it back.

 

[belly-deep]

ohio. i'll post the outcome. hopefully sooner than later.

Sorry. I meant what state was the hunt booked in?

 

[Colo4x4XJ]

My guess is you used a credit card to make the transaction? If the outfitter wont refund go to the credit card company. You're golden line is " I did not get what I paid for". Works like a charm

 

[dbaker]

Sorry. I meant what state was the hunt booked in?

maine

 

[dbaker]

My guess is you used a credit card to make the transaction? If the outfitter wont refund go to the credit card company. You're golden line is " I did not get what I paid for". Works like a charm

no credit card. personnel check. i'll ck with the bank about any type of fraud protection. thanks for all the info and ideas guys. hopefully i'll get it resolved but it don't look to likely.

 

[colonel00]

Sorry, maybe I missed it but what was the hunt for and can you give us a price range of what you booked or what the deposit was? I don't mean to get too personal but I'm just curious if we are talking about a couple hundred bucks or several thousand. While I don't think it is right for the outfitter to do this, it may not be cost effective to pursue a smaller amount of money. I could totally understand if this was a 25% deposit on a $20,000 sheep hunt but a $100 deposit on a sea duck hunt may not be worth going to court if you see what I mean.

Also, again sorry if I missed it, but what was the reason given by the outfitter for cancelling the hunt?

 

[dbaker]

i didn't want to go into details. like mentioned reviews are the only real leverage one has when settling these things. needless to say its more than a couple 100 but prlly not cost effective to fight. i'll explain in full detail if outfitter doesn't resolve the issue.

 

[gelton]

deleted post - already covered in thread.

 

[LaGriz]

What about when a hunt cancels due to weather, closed roads, floods, or when thru no fault of the client, outfitter, or state/Fish & Game -a military base closeure prevents any hunt to take place? At that late hour the outfitter will have already spent half the money. I guess you will have to have a pre-determined idea how to address such a bummer of a problem. I heard that in 2013 New Mexico hunters lost there hard-to-draw hunts, and high-dollar tags from heavy rains and due to a government shutdown. Who could see that comeing? I don't know if people got refunded anything or not. In other states you could loose all your accumulated points too! That would really suck to loose two decades worth of points and all your fees. Wow!
Anyone know of this ever happening?

LaGriz

 

[Nick Muche]

I hope this wasn't for a bear hunt.... If it was, can I be the first to guess the name of the outfit!

 

[Poser]

What about when a hunt cancels due to weather, closed roads, floods, or when thru no fault of the client, outfitter, or state/Fish & Game -a military base closeure prevents any hunt to take place? At that late hour the outfitter will have already spent half the money. I guess you will have to have a pre-determined idea how to address such a bummer of a problem. I heard that in 2013 New Mexico hunters lost there hard-to-draw hunts, and high-dollar tags from heavy rains and due to a government shutdown. Who could see that comeing? I don't know if people got refunded anything or not. In other states you could loose all your accumulated points too! That would really suck to loose two decades worth of points and all your fees. Wow!
Anyone know of this ever happening?

LaGriz

In many US contracts, this would fall under a clause known as "Force Majure" which is a contract provision that allows a party to suspend or terminate the performance of its obligations when certain circumstances beyond their control arise, making performance inadvisable, commercially impracticable, illegal, or impossible. The provision may state that the contract is temporarily suspended, or that it is terminated if the event of force majeure continues for a prescribed period of time.

Usually, the circumstances that would create such conditions are referred to as "Acts of God" and might include floods, war, terrorists attacks, lockouts, shutdowns, hurricanes, earthquakes etc and anything else that might be negotiated on a contract. Specific terms of such events can be worked out, but a standard clause would present no liability on behalf of either party. In other words, you would each walk away with your own losses. For the hunter, this might include airfare costs, deposit etc. For the outfitter, this could also be a loss due to logistics and invested time. In some circumstances, the outfitter might be responsible to return the deposit less any expenses, but that would probably need to be stated in the contract and, if you just signed the contract sent to you with no amendments, it would be unlikely that they would return your deposit unless they were just really nice people. Also, it would be fairly easy for an outfitter to "fluff" some receipts and state "Look, I already spent you deposit on nonrefundable expenses."

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor do I work in the outdoor industry. Do not consider the above legal advice. I just deal with event contracts on a regular basis and have "kind of seen it all" when it comes to getting screwed, robbed, stabbed in the back, ripped off, stolen from, lied do, breached and anything else a person can do to financially abuse you with or in spite of a signed piece of paper. Based on that, if I were going to hire an outfitter, I would read the contract carefully and would not hesitate to make amendments and negotiate hardball terms and conditions in my favor that address such outcomes.

 

[dbaker]

I hope this wasn't for a bear hunt.... If it was, can I be the first to guess the name of the outfit!

your box is full

 

[tipsntails7]

How about an update on this?

 

[dbaker]

How about an update on this?

couple more weeks. the wait is prlly worthless but doing all can before i give up and air em out.

 

[dbaker]

update
Outfitters name was Huntley Brook Outfitters owned and operated by George Sabattus. He operated on tribal lands in Maine. He has since changed the name of his outfitters to Sabattus hunting adventures. To make a long story short I sent money for a moose permit and hunt deposit. A week before the hunt he texted me that the hunt was cancelled. 2 years have passed and after countless phone calls and emails to the state of Maine, the tribal service and the outfitter I have been refunded $500 dollars of the total $3000. While trying to obtain my refund I have discovered many other people in the same boat as me. I'm not sure if the outfitters is even in business anymore but just a heads up to anyone wanting to bear or moose hunt in Maine. Hopefully this will keep someone else from going through the nightmare that I went through. As a disclaimer I am not recommending anyone use or not use them I am just summarizing my experience with them. I have read horror stories about hunting on tribal land with tribal outfitters and needless to say I've learned a lesson first hand who and where I will never considering hunting with in the future.

 

[Laelkhunter]

That sounds like outright fraud to me. Since it happened via mail, you might get the Feds involved. Fraud by mail is a serious crime, and they might be interested in knowing about it. No telling how many others were victims of this operator. I don't think the statute of limitations has expired yet. Might want to try the Feds.

 

[Mjm316]

How about reporting to the BBB and contacting your states attorney general? Hope you get the rest of your money back from this low life