Other powders for 6.5cm?

[TimberHunter]

So far I’ve tried H4350, Staball 6.5 and N150 in my 6.5cm tikka

All produced similar sized ES (40-50fps). Hornady precision hunters is around 20fps ES. In my other 6.5 (Seekins) I use H4350 and get sub 20fps ES (were I’d like get my tikka to). So I don’t think it’s my process or brass (tried Lapua, Hornady and Peterson but about same ES)

Also tried other primers

I think it’s the powder. Any suggestions on what powder to try next? Shooting 130-147 bullets


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[peaches]

Hunter

 

[SDHNTR]

You’re mad at 40-50 ES? As a fellow OCD sufferer, even I have come to the conclusion that for hunting it is totally irrelevant.

 

[TimberHunter]

You’re mad at 40-50 ES? As a fellow OCD sufferer, even I have come to the conclusion that for hunting it is totally irrelevant.

Totally understand but that’s just not where (40/-50) I want to be. Mainly because the factory stuff is half or less with their ES

I listened to Form’s Wiz (spelling?) calculator on ES and SD and I know I’m good with 40-50 but knowing the factory stuff is half that and my other 6.5 is sub 20 with my reloads, just want to get this tikka down to 20-30 (I know I won’t see the difference on paper, just a mental thing lol)


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[SDHNTR]

Knock yourself out. Just realize it’s a waste of time, money and components.

 

[Vern400]

If you are loading very close to the rifling lands, it's pretty easy to get in a situation where some bullets are touching or jammed, and others have some room. Of course, pushing the shoulders back more than a few thousands from your chamber can make that worse. Because measuring your base to ogive is good, but if the case is wiggling around in the chamber you don't really know where it is. That will cost larger ES. A lot of very very good bench rest shooters try to avoid that " just touching" or very close situation for that reason. I'm not saying that's what you have going on. I don't know, and I don't care.

Bench rest shooters often buy their own reamer to make sure replacement barrels are identical. And they still are NOT identical.

One factory barrel May actually give you a better es than another factory barrel, for its full useful life. There are an infinite number of combinations of course. In my limited experience powder and primer combination does seem to make a difference in ES

SDHNTR Yoda is. I have long since quit worrying about the last 50 ft per second, and the last 10 or 15 of ES. I can get 35 FPS variation by having a drop or two of rainwater in my barrel, or the cartridges in my gun on a cold day compared to warm cartridges out of my chest pocket. Or out of letting my cartridges sit in the Sun as opposed to the shade. Or letting a round cook in the warm chamber for 30 seconds. ( My hunting powder is RL15 until I run out forever)

Your data does not necessarily indicate a problem.

 

[solarshooter]

Win 760 has yielded some impressive speeds and SD/ES in my Dad's Tikka 6.5CM Stainless Lite. Not "temp stable" per se, but he has not had issues shooting it year round (little to no perceptible MV migration from ~32 to ~90deg, or at least within the natural MV variability of the load).

But, as others have stated, chasing MV stats is sometimes wasted effort. For instance, how many shots go into your SD/ES? How many shots go into the values you are comparing against? If you subject any load to extensive testing you'll likely find higher "stats" than what most people show off in their posts.

Consistency in reloading practices is important. Using good components helps a lot, but if you want to improve your MV stats, you have to IMPROVE your loading practices. You should take a critical look at how you perform each step, measure and quality check to assess your consistency, and implement process improvements if you find a lack of consistency in any one step of your process. This is how the top level shooters achieve single digit ES for 20 shot strings. Again, not needed for hunting, but more important for ELR/F class type shooting. Here are some changes I've implemented in my reloading in recent years that have improved my precision and MV consistency:

• When resizing, allow for a "dwell" period with the case pressed up in the die, about 5-10s, to allow the brass to "flow" and reduce springback. I implemented this and noticed that my achieved resized headspace has become more consistent.
• Aim for 0.003-0.004" headspace clearance rather than 0.002-0.003". When you superpose the tolerance on your resized brass (+/-0.001-0.002" for me), you will end up with some tight fitting cases if you aim for ~0.002" clearance. Also you become vulnerable to even a slight amount of debris in the chamber causing a tight fit. No accuracy loss but improved feeding consistency.
• When seating bullets, do not "chase" a particular CBTO (I hope you're using CBTO and not COAL, if not do this first) by constantly adjusting the die. Get close with the first few and then don't touch it. There is natural variability in your measurements and the exact shape of the bullets - leaving the die alone will achieve the most consistent end result.
• Do not aim for super short jump (<0.020"). There is enough variability in bullets, achieved seating depth, measurement of jam (and degree of jam), that if you try to achieve a super short jump, you will end up with some bullets jamming and others not (even if you don't notice it). Going from jump to any degree of jam will have a big influence on the shape of the pressure curve, much more so than going from jump to slightly different jump. I personally start at ~0.030" or more now, use bullets that have been demonstrated to be insensitive to small variations in jump (hybrid ogive), and use chambers with tight freebore clearance (6.5CM has this by default) to minimize the influence of jump.
• Seat primers by feel, not by measurement. I like to give them a firm one handed press until I feel them actively "bottom" in the pocket. I do not crush them at all, but I do make sure they bottom.
• Strive for a "perfect" trim/chamfer/deburr. I like a clear chamfer on the inner lip, visible flat front face of neck (no knife edge), and zero perceptible burr, even a slight chamfer, on the outside edge of the neck. It takes some doing to get set up correctly, but has been shown to influence ammo consistency. Burrs on the inner or outer lip can mar the surface of the bullet, cause the bullet to seat crooked, cause inconsistency in seating force/neck tension, and cause inconsistent neck obturation (sealing) against the chamber wall (look at the soot pattern around the perimeter of the neck to asses). Once I get a really good shape on the lip of the mouth, I will not necessarily trim every reload cycle, but I will measure case length to make sure it's not getting too long and assess the shape of the mouth lip every reload. If they are getting bent or losing an obvious chamfer that will trigger me to trim and chamfer more likely than outright case length.
• Learn your powder measurement machine. Whether using a manual tool or an auto charger, learn how it behaves and what a good measure looks like vs an overshoot/undershoot. I use an RCBS chargemaster, and added a rolled up piece of paper to the dispenser nozzle to slow down the rate of trickle. This gives the controller more time to measure before overshooting a target charge weight. I know a good charge is when the machine slowly approaches the target from below and stops as soon as the last one or two kernels of powder fall in the tray and cause it to tick over to the target. If it's creeping up from the bottom and a big chunk of kernels fall out and cause it to jump up significantly to the target or overshoot it, I'll throw that charge back in the hopper and redo it.

 

[solarshooter]

Oh, also I've found everything gets better when I clean less. MV seems to come back on trend within a few shots of cleaning, but I have a theory (subjective, not objective, yet) that more distance from last cleaning means more consistent MV and precision. I have upped my cleaning intervals to 100+rds and seen what I believe to be improvements in consistency in both metrics. I have not done a careful test of this to validate it but it's food for thought. The more stable the barrel conditions are the more consistent the results will be.

 

[Tnc]

I’ve been running shooters world precision for a couple years now. Consistently getting single digit SDs with Peterson brass and Berger 130s

 

[pbroski]

I get low ES's with both N550 and N555 in my Kimber 6.5cm with Alpha brass and 147's.

 

[wind gypsy]

You've tried good options. Others that might work good: RL16 (ha, good luck finding it and it'll be expensive) and N555. I've read N550 is a little less temp stable than N555.