OTC coming to an end in COLORADO???

[realunlucky]

It might help but generally what adds to point creep is people sitting on the sidelines buying points then jumping in to play. Bottom line is this, every state that has a point system has been trying to combat point creep and no one has come up with a good solution. Point creep is inevitable when you have a point system and putting more tags under that system will make those tags suffer the same down fall.

That's not true at all. Point creep is more applicants than tags plain and simple. If all tags are draw and use points but application and tags numbers are the same the system would balance. Problem is people don't want to use points to hunt each year.

Sitting on the sidelines sucks after a couple years and being from Utah I know

 

[orionthehunter1]

How is that similar to Wyoming? Residents don't have points there.

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Yeah I said similar not exact

 

[realunlucky]

Yeah I said similar not exact

So your idea is---- basically the system for you to stay the same and only change the current system to be more limited for non residents to protect them from hunting your elk.

Do you have a quick reference of numbers of residents vs non-resident tags issued? I don't think it'll have that much impact that you hope but I've haven't seen the numbers

 

[5MilesBack]

Sitting on the sidelines sucks after a couple years and being from Utah I know

Ya, I guarantee you that I would be heading to Idaho every year I couldn't get a CO tag. Or I'd be buying LO tags somewhere.

 

[realunlucky]

Ya, I guarantee you that I would be heading to Idaho every year I couldn't get a CO tag. Or I'd be buying LO tags somewhere.

Question is would you cash out your points yearly/every couple years or just hunt elsewhere and continue to build points for your favorite unit in Colorado? Only one choice works for the over crowding issue and the other choice for point creep issue.

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[MuleyFever]

Would a fair system be one where you can’t buy points? If you apply you get a point for not drawing but no buying points. Points would not expire. I would also be fine with a no point system, just random.

 

[CorbLand]

That's not true at all. Point creep is more applicants than tags plain and simple. If all tags are draw and use points but application and tags numbers are the same the system would balance. Problem is people don't want to use points to hunt each year.

Sitting on the sidelines sucks after a couple years and being from Utah I know

What you said is what I was trying to say. You said it in a better way, thank you for clearing up what I was trying to get at. What I was saying is that it works great until those that have been sitting on the sideline building points decide to jump in. Then the applicant pool increases and the tags stay the same.

I agree with you on living in Utah. I have been trying to get a muzzleloader bull tag for 5 years with no luck it sucks. This is why I always tell people to look that the consequences of a model mimicking Utah.

 

[orionthehunter1]

So your idea is---- basically the system for you to stay the same and only change the current system to be more limited for non residents to protect them from hunting your elk.

Do you have a quick reference of numbers of residents vs non-resident tags issued? I don't think it'll have that much impact that you hope but I've haven't seen the numbers

It's not the same as it is now I said you could hunt otc or choose to build points. If you chose points you couldn't hunt like you can now. Thus making people choose and lowering the crowding of otc units. I'm also not opposed to making the whole state draw resident and non-residents and make a hard 80/20 split across the board for all units.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Also like I said many posts ago I know a lot of residents who would pay more for an elk tag if the quality was better as well as the crowding. Raising the resident prices would also help offset the deficit of capping non residents to 20%.

 

[CorbLand]

Would a fair system be one where you can’t buy points? If you apply you get a point for not drawing but no buying points. Points would not expire. I would also be fine with a no point system, just random.

I think that would help but you would have to eliminate the ability to turn tags back too. Basically it would force people to hunt when they get tags.

I think it would help with point creep but wouldn't eliminate it or slow it down a lot.

 

[realunlucky]

It's not the same as it is now I said you could hunt otc or choose to build points. If you chose points you couldn't hunt like you can now. Thus making people choose and lowering the crowding of otc units. I'm also not opposed to making the whole state draw resident and non-residents and make a hard 80/20 split across the board for all units.

Ok I totally misunderstood your point sorry

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[chasewild]

Completely disagree with this statement. I've been hunting CO since 1980, and you have a better chance today at trophy quality bulls across the entire western half of the state than at any other time since 1980. Bull quality has been excellent compared to the past.

In retrospect, my comment is, a little unfair. I do see good bulls, so I agree that there are good bulls in some OTC units. But I don't agree that we have a "better chance today at trophy quality bulls across the entire state . . . since 1980." I don't think either one of us have the data to back this statement up (or the inverse).

 

[gabenzeke]

I've been hunting CO OTC the past few years and definitely think they need to do something. Personally I think the muzzy season during the rut needs to at least be moved. And OTC with caps sounds reasonable. But in addition, they need to address predators. I've only got 3 years in that state and I've seen two lions. Steve Rinella says you can tell how much time a guy puts in by how many lions he has seen and the outfitter on that episode spends way more time than I do out west had only seen thirty or so in his life. I feel like my two lions in four total weeks is out of whack. Not to mention all the bears.

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[5MilesBack]

Question is would you cash out your points yearly/every couple years or just hunt elsewhere and continue to build points for your favorite unit in Colorado?

I'd still play the points game for whatever tag I want, but as soon as I draw my favorite tag again in the next couple years......I'm done collecting points for that unit.......especially if OTC tags go away. Just too many points required and too many people applying.

 

[5MilesBack]

In retrospect, my comment is, a little unfair. I do see good bulls, so I agree that there are good bulls in some OTC units. But I don't agree that we have a "better chance today at trophy quality bulls across the entire state . . . since 1980." I don't think either one of us have the data to back this statement up (or the inverse).

If you have hunted CO in the 70's, 80's, and even the 90's, you'd have all the data you'd need to be confident in what I stated. Trophy bulls were few and far between back then, but I've seen more trophy caliber bulls in the last 10 years all over the state than the previous ~30 years combined. And it's not even close. Overall trophy quality is definitely better these days. And I'm not the only one......I've talked to several guys I know that have hunted CO for years and they say the same thing.

In the unit I hunted this year I know of at least three 6-point bulls that were killed during archery/ML, and I saw another four 6-points in addition to those. Last year in a different unit I saw four 6-points in just two days of hunting, and that was after my daughter's ML hunt in a different unit where she shot a 333" 6x6.......and it was the first bull I called in for her. In 2012 I shot a 300+ 6x6 in one of the most heavily hunted OTC units in the state......a unit managed for quantity, not quality. A buddy of mine shot a 325 bull in that same unit a few years earlier. In the entire decade of the 80's I never saw even close to that many 6-points combined.

 

[orionthehunter1]

In the 80s and 90s spikes were fair game and a ton of them got shot. The quality got better after the 4 point or 6 inch brow tine rule got implemented.

 

[wannakillabigbull]

6 inch brow tine rule

*5 inches, but obviously your point stands. I've never been a fan of having a spike hunt, but some states still do them.

 

[orionthehunter1]

yeah my bad I had six stuck in my head

 

[cnelk]

If my memory serves me correctly, 1999 was the last year that spikes were legal in OTC areas.

They are still legal in LE units

Boy oh boy, we sure layed 'em out back in the day!

 

[5MilesBack]

They are still legal in LE units

Ya, the units managed for trophy quality, and they allow you to shoot spikes.........and cows.