One rifle you could hand anyone to hunt anything? (Western US)

[surfr716]

If I am loaning someone a rifle on a hunt, it will not be a 700-based action anymore. What other options are out there in the price range of the TIkka with similar reliability and parts support? @cwitt nailed it with this post earlier in the thread.



Loaner guns should be boringly reliable, easy to set up/find a suitable hunting load for, and preferably reasonable on cost. I want it to have a locking bolt as well. I am building it to remove every possible variable I can to increase their odds of success. It shouldn't have to be a $1k aftermarket action, prefit barrel, fluted bolt, etc... That is just as likely to jam or have trigger issues as an off-the-shelf R700. The Howas are gaining in popularity, but aftermarket support for the stock I would want is still weak. Same goes for the Ruger Americans, and in the little I have been around both I have seen a few malfunctions. The Xbolts I have are very accurate guns, but little to no aftermarket support combined with cost push them off the list for me. Model 70-based actions are nice, but either sourcing another MRC action or finding a good donor action and building off it add to the cost too much to make it worth it vs a Tikka.

Do you have other options that I am missing, or did you come here just to post memes?

bro if you cant keep a rem 700 or clone up and running that sounds like a you problem. there's a reason you hear more about problems with them; because there's millions out there, the sample size dwarfs every other available platform.

 

[cwitt]

 

[surfr716]

depends, what are you hunting? if i was going for deer or similar, id probably build something in a 6.5 prc, put a nightforce or something bomb proof on it and call it a day. probably wouldnt worry about making it a super light rig, just something i could scale up or down for the size of the shooter that weighed enough to be easy to stabilize.

if i were hunting elk id probably size up to a 7 prc or similar. not because i think id be under-gunned with smaller but to give clients peace of mind.

personally id build a nice custom, something id be proud to hunt with. if nothing else at least the client wont think your a fly by night op. a lot of what the client is gong to think about you is going to happen straight out of the gate, long before they ever see an animal. massive difference between handing someone a box stock tikka and something to rival a gunwerks in terms of how theyre going to remember you and talk to you as a potential guide to their friends

 

[glock233]

This is a great question. What gun should guides build to back up their dumb clients.

I think optimal in this context is making everything easy. Bone stock Tikka 6.5 PRC, or 6.5 CM. SWFA 3-15 scope. UM tikka rings and level. Stable small tripod for shooting when someone is truly bad at positions. Dial it in with factory gray box Hornady 143 ELDX. .243 is a dark horse for this too.

You’ll end up with a stupid simple and reliable system that won’t go wonky on you in adverse circumstances. I’d actually choose the PRC for this application. Will cause less panic with the idiots you’re backing up—6.5cm can be absurdly controversial and it can’t help you if they won’t use it. And the PRC is a little more forgiving on ranging errors.

There are better cartridges but they’re not easier to set up and run.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

.308 Win and/or a 6.5CM. If you had both the client could choose old school or new school. And…both would kill anything needed at acceptable ranges.

 

[RancherJohn]

bro if you cant keep a rem 700 or clone up and running that sounds like a you problem. there's a reason you hear more about problems with them; because there's millions out there, the sample size dwarfs every other available platform.

If you haven't had a FTF or some form of trigger issue with a 700 (or clone), you need to shoot more in inclement weather or do more multi-day late season backpacking hunts. I have had two 700s give me issues on hunts, neither cost an animal but easily could've. Add in the lack of 3 pos safety and it's not a gun I have as much interest in hunting with anymore. They can be very accurate, aftermarket support is nearly endless, and lots of animals will die to 700 based actions this year; but for the above reasons I wouldn't use it for a 'pick up and go hunt anything at any time' rifle.

 

[glock233]

If you haven't had a FTF or some form of trigger issue with a 700 (or clone), you need to shoot more in inclement weather or do more multi-day late season backpacking hunts. I have had two 700s give me issues on hunts, neither cost an animal but easily could've. Add in the lack of 3 pos safety and it's not a gun I have as much interest in hunting with anymore. They can be very accurate, aftermarket support is nearly endless, and lots of animals will die to 700 based actions this year; but for the above reasons I wouldn't use it for a 'pick up and go hunt anything at any time' rifle.

One of the blessings in my life was having an R700 choke on me because of modest dust introduction at a range. Allowed me to understand the weakness of the system, swear it off, and move on to more rugged platforms.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

One rifle you could hand anyone to hunt anything? (Western US)​

Tikka T3x in 7mm-08 with SWFA 3-9x42.
Pros-
- good/affordable factory ammo available (easily optimized by the reloader)
- moderate/mild recoil
- proven round on everything up to elk/moose at reasonable distances
- with rings and scope, entire rifle can be purchased for a around $1,000 if a guy does some digging and has some patience

 

[JGRaider]

One rifle you could hand anyone to hunt anything? (Western US)​

Tikka T3x in 7mm-08 with SWFA 3-9x42.
Pros-
- good/affordable factory ammo available (easily optimized by the reloader)
- moderate/mild recoil
- proven round on everything up to elk/moose at reasonable distances
- with rings and scope, entire rifle can be purchased for a around $1,000 if a guy does some digging and has some patience

This, or 6.5 CM. Easy, easy buttons. 95% of all big game is killed under 350 yards anyway, the majority of that a whole lot closer.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

It’s a loaner. Doesn’t need to be fancy.

Ruger American in 7-08, 308, 6.5cm and a simple 3-9 scope.

You could go with 30-06 or even 300wm but keep it simple. Lighter recoil.

No can. I know you can, but I’m not risking it for someone else.

 

[surfr716]

If you haven't had a FTF or some form of trigger issue with a 700 (or clone), you need to shoot more in inclement weather or do more multi-day late season backpacking hunts. I have had two 700s give me issues on hunts, neither cost an animal but easily could've. Add in the lack of 3 pos safety and it's not a gun I have as much interest in hunting with anymore. They can be very accurate, aftermarket support is nearly endless, and lots of animals will die to 700 based actions this year; but for the above reasons I wouldn't use it for a 'pick up and go hunt anything at any time' rifle.

im from western Washington and hunt high buck every season, the only place with more inclement weather in the US is Alaska. The only time ive had a trigger fail was during the summer in western Washington, choked on some fine grit sand and had to clean it out with lighter fluid, irritating but not insurmountable. im not saying a rifle wont fail, im saying ALL rifles fail. ive locked up my old pre 64 Winchester in a nasty snow storm, that doesnt make it a bad rifle. if 3 pos safety is your jam thats awesome, not really an issue for me.

 

[RancherJohn]

im from western Washington and hunt high buck every season, the only place with more inclement weather in the US is Alaska. The only time ive had a trigger fail was during the summer in western Washington, choked on some fine grit sand and had to clean it out with lighter fluid, irritating but not insurmountable. im not saying a rifle wont fail, im saying ALL rifles fail. ive locked up my old pre 64 Winchester in a nasty snow storm, that doesnt make it a bad rifle. if 3 pos safety is your jam thats awesome, not really an issue for me.

I have not had issues in the rain. I have had issues in the snow and ice. Then I watched other 700s go 3 for 3 on having issues in the S2H class while all the Tikkas ran like a sewing machine and didn't miss a beat. Wind and dust/sand can be an issue here during our early rifle seasons if it's dry, and 700s are known for trigger issues in those conditions. It's just not a rifle I would classify as good for inclement weather when there are better options on the market.

The 3 pos safety should have been rephrased as a safety that locks the bolt closed. 700s do not like anything in the interface between bolt and receiver. Maybe if you want to hunt with a cleaning kit and a bottle of lighter fluid, but that's not my jam.

I agree all rifles can fail. I want the one that fails the least, in the worst conditions. That means it's not a 700-based action. It's not a slight against those that use them, it's a reflection of my own experiences and what I have seen happen with other guns.

 

[Cherokeeguide]

Because I will be hunting with them either way. I value my own time and energy too much to leave something on the table like this that is easily controllable. And finding a way to have a successful hunt despite the limitations of a client is a pretty core aspect of guiding.

I was a licensed guide (#2725) in California from 1995 to 2012.

"Finding a way to have a successful hunt despite the limitations of a client" is indeed a pretty core aspect of guiding.

As more of them show up with rifle systems that leave something to be desired, I am taking it upon myself to have an alternative to offer.

Why are your clients showing up "with rifle systems that leave something to be desired" in the first place? They never ask the "what rifle should I bring" question when they book a trip with you? You have some specific idea about "rifle systems" that do not "leave something to be desired" and don't bother sharing that information with your clients until the day of the hunt? What do you do with the clients that want to use a .44 Magnum revolver, or their cap-lock .50 Lyman Great Plains Rifle with a 1:66 twist that can only shoot round balls? Take their deposit money, then stick something that looks like "The Backfire Guy" would hunt with in their hands?

I could kill every kind of hooved game animal in North America with the Lyman 66 equipped Marlin 336 in .30-30 that I started with as an 11 year old kid, shooting the same 170 grain Speer Hot Core handload I hunted that rifle with until LeveRevolution came out. You might think that "rifle system" leaves "something to be desired" but in my hands, it never stopped me from filling my tag.

You place importance on the arrow. I think the Indian is more important than the arrow is.

When a client would pop the "what rifle should I bring?" question with me, my answer would always be "Whatever you shoot the best away from a bench and rest, have confidence in, and is a lawful method of take here in California, which you can basically think of as .223 Remington on up." My job was to put them in a position so whatever they brought would work.

It wasn't my job to arm them with a rifle reflecting my own personal preferences.

 

[cwitt]

Why are your clients showing up "with rifle systems that leave something to be desired" in the first place?

There are countless reasons. Because it’s not a priority to them. Because they don’t have the experience out west or hunting in general to know better. Because they think they know better and don’t. Because they have sentimental attachment to a rifle that is not as capable as something more modern. Because they don’t have enough time prior to the hunt to adequately prepare. Because they are flying across the country or down to Mexico and don’t want to bring a rifle. I could go on.

They never ask the "what rifle should I bring" question when they book a trip with you? You have some specific idea about "rifle systems" that do not "leave something to be desired" and don't bother sharing that information with your clients until the day of the hunt?

I do have the conversation. But just because I have the conversation doesn’t mean they will already own what I think they need. And if they don’t, should I expect them to run out and buy it instead?

What do you do with the clients that want to use a .44 Magnum revolver, or their cap-lock .50 Lyman Great Plains Rifle with a 1:66 twist that can only shoot round balls? Take their deposit money, then stick something that looks like "The Backfire Guy" would hunt with in their hands?

Let them. It’s their hunt and their choice. But for as often as someone plans to hunt with something like that, very rarely does that last the entire hunt.

I could kill every kind of hooved game animal in North America with the Lyman 66 equipped Marlin 336 in .30-30 that I started with as an 11 year old kid, shooting the same 170 grain Speer Hot Core handload I hunted that rifle with until LeveRevolution came out. You might think that "rifle system" leaves "something to be desired" but in my hands, it never stopped me from filling my tag.

Congratulations. That is impressive of you. Not everyone is as experienced or capable.

You place importance on the arrow. I think the Indian is more important than the arrow is.

My entire point here is that I can’t control the Indian. So yes, the arrow is important to me because it’s what I can control.

When a client would pop the "what rifle should I bring?" question with me, my answer would always be "Whatever you shoot the best away from a bench and rest, have confidence in, and is a lawful method of take here in California, which you can basically think of as .223 Remington on up." My job was to put them in a position so whatever they brought would work.
It wasn't my job to arm them with a rifle reflecting my own personal preferences.

You’re contradicting yourself. Was it your job to help them be successful or not? What if what they brought simply will not work? There’s plenty of reasons for that to be the case as well.

This has almost nothing to do with my personal preferences. The question is what will work for the most people in the most situations. Not what works best for me.

 

[nphunter]

Love my tikka .243 in a Stocky with a VG, but, I’d have a hard time not grabbing my Rem700 280AI that has killed over 30 big game animals though. It’s a 13lb TAC driver that is hard to miss with and it hasn’t missed a beat with 1000’s of hours in the field.

The .243 was built to take the 280AI’s place and has a 16” barrel and weight 8.5lbs suppressed. I love having the overall rifle with the supressor be 5” shorter than my 280AI and 4lbs lighter.

 

[schmidty3]

I was a licensed guide (#2725) in California from 1995 to 2012.

"Finding a way to have a successful hunt despite the limitations of a client" is indeed a pretty core aspect of guiding.



Why are your clients showing up "with rifle systems that leave something to be desired" in the first place? They never ask the "what rifle should I bring" question when they book a trip with you? You have some specific idea about "rifle systems" that do not "leave something to be desired" and don't bother sharing that information with your clients until the day of the hunt? What do you do with the clients that want to use a .44 Magnum revolver, or their cap-lock .50 Lyman Great Plains Rifle with a 1:66 twist that can only shoot round balls? Take their deposit money, then stick something that looks like "The Backfire Guy" would hunt with in their hands?

I could kill every kind of hooved game animal in North America with the Lyman 66 equipped Marlin 336 in .30-30 that I started with as an 11 year old kid, shooting the same 170 grain Speer Hot Core handload I hunted that rifle with until LeveRevolution came out. You might think that "rifle system" leaves "something to be desired" but in my hands, it never stopped me from filling my tag.

You place importance on the arrow. I think the Indian is more important than the arrow is.

When a client would pop the "what rifle should I bring?" question with me, my answer would always be "Whatever you shoot the best away from a bench and rest, have confidence in, and is a lawful method of take here in California, which you can basically think of as .223 Remington on up." My job was to put them in a position so whatever they brought would work.

It wasn't my job to arm them with a rifle reflecting my own personal preferences.

You had nothing but perfect customers for 17 years??? they must've tipped very well.

 

[bullmtn]

6.5 creedmoor tikka suppressed with a 6inch TI can with a 6x swfa in um rings shooting 130 tmks or a eldx load if you don’t reload. Its amazing how many people aren’t ready for the hunt when it happens….I’ve definitely never been that guy…..

 

[Rich M]

Whatever rifle you choose. Have hunter shoot it 1/2 doz times before hunting with it.

I had to use guides gun and flinched first 2 shots, then did the 350 yard kill shot. Im not good w new guns but can shoot very well once i know the gun trigger and muzzleblast.