One rifle you could hand anyone to hunt anything? (Western US)

[elsb0048]

I wonder if a dialing scope is the right track here, especially without a zero stop/lock like the swfa. Seems like a MPBR setup with SFP duplex is more appropriate for the lowest common denominator that you're outfitting here. Whether that's trijicon or Leupold or whatever (depending on your adherence to drop test results)

 

[z987k]

I wonder if a dialing scope is the right track here, especially without a zero stop/lock like the swfa. Seems like a MPBR setup with SFP duplex is more appropriate for the lowest common denominator that you're outfitting here. Whether that's trijicon or Leupold or whatever (depending on your adherence to drop test results)

Ya, MPBR is the way to go with this. SFP duplex scope if possible. If they're not bringing their own rifle, the chances they are going to be practiced and understand dialing and get that right are low. The chances they will need wind holds is zero.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

These are relatively similar to what I have in mind for now at least. A Tikka (or maybe Raven?) action in a HNT 26 chassis with a 3-18x NX6. 20-22” barrel, OG65. TT trigger.

Any reason for the XLR over the HNT26? I am leaning towards a chassis.

Clients will F up the folding mechanism on the HNT 26, It’s slower to deploy and will make them think they can shoot further than they should. A well designed traditional stock, ie Rokstok or ROK Lite would suit far more.

If a client has 18x of top end zoom, guess where that scope is going to end up?
10-12x max for such a rifle is more than sufficient and will help keep them in the scope and spotting the damn animal to begin with.

No reason for a barrel longer than 18”.

 

[43.6N]

Ya, MPBR is the way to go with this. SFP duplex scope if possible. If they're not bringing their own rifle, the chances they are going to be practiced and understand dialing and get that right are low. The chances they will need wind holds is zero.

Except I’m not going to deliberately change my rig for loaning purposes.

I’d rather just pre-dial to 1.0 mil for 300yds, and go hunt.

 

[z987k]

Except I’m not going to deliberately change my rig for loaning purposes.

I’d rather just pre-dial to 1.0 mil for 300yds, and go hunt.

The OPs question is he's a guide and this is a loaner rig. He's not doing anything with his rifle.

 

[z987k]

Clients will F up the folding mechanism on the HNT 26, It’s slower to deploy and will make them think they can shoot further than they should. A well designed traditional stock, ie Rokstok or ROK Lite would suit far more.

If a client has 18x of top end zoom, guess where that scope is going to end up?
10-12x max for such a rifle is more than sufficient and will help keep them in the scope and spotting the damn animal to begin with.

No reason for a barrel longer than 18”.

They do make it in a fixed. It's lighter to.

 

[BluMtn]

I would suggest either the 6.5 PRC or a 7mm-08 in an adjustable chassis. Scope would be something simple SFP 2-10x44 with a simple reticle.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Ya, MPBR is the way to go with this. SFP duplex scope if possible. If they're not bringing their own rifle, the chances they are going to be practiced and understand dialing and get that right are low. The chances they will need wind holds is zero.

Not at all, if the client needs handholding, I want a rifle I can lean over and dial for them if they can’t figure it out on their own. I don’t want to be telling them to hold a “hair high” or “right on the back line” or whatever. I’d rather be able to tell them “dial up 3.5”. Or just do it for them if they go blank.

I would basically want a near clone of my own rifle so that they didn’t feel like I was treating them differently.

A boringly reliable Tikka, Sauer 100, Mauser, etc. in the 9# range with a suppressor in something between .243 and .270 Winchester would be my choice. Throw on an SWFA 6x or 3-9x and call it a day.

I like the suggestion to put a custom barrel marking on it. The “.243-308 Winchester Short Magnum” loaded with Extremely Lethal Deadly Murders, Extremely Lethal Deadly Xterminators, or Terminal Master Killers would be my choice.

 

[elsb0048]

Not at all, if the client needs handholding, I want a rifle I can lean over and dial for them if they can’t figure it out on their own. I don’t want to be telling them to hold a “hair high” or “right on the back line” or whatever. I’d rather be able to tell them “dial up 3.5”. Or just do it for them if they go blank.

I would basically want a near clone of my own rifle so that they didn’t feel like I was treating them differently.

The other end of this would be: if you need to dial or hold with a client that needs handholding that you just need to get closer. No holding high, no letting the dial get spun by accident. If it's inside of 250yds point and shoot. If it's further, get them closer.

If you want to shoot past 250 yds you ought to show up with a rifle that's wrung out and ready to go.

 

[z987k]

Not at all, if the client needs handholding, I want a rifle I can lean over and dial for them if they can’t figure it out on their own. I don’t want to be telling them to hold a “hair high” or “right on the back line” or whatever. I’d rather be able to tell them “dial up 3.5”. Or just do it for them if they go blank.

I would basically want a near clone of my own rifle so that they didn’t feel like I was treating them differently.

A boringly reliable Tikka, Sauer 100, Mauser, etc. in the 9# range with a suppressor in something between .243 and .270 Winchester would be my choice. Throw on an SWFA 6x or 3-9x and call it a day.

I like the suggestion to put a custom barrel marking on it. The “.243-308 Winchester Short Magnum” loaded with Extremely Lethal Deadly Murders, Extremely Lethal Deadly Xterminators, or Terminal Master Killers would be my choice.

You're not holding anything with MPBR. You just hold the crosshair directly on the animal. If you, the guide, ranges the animal outside the MPBR, you don't shoot.
And you sure as shit aren't holding for wind, so there's no purpose in FFP.

I basically already do exactly what is described with my father. We hunted with slugged shotguns and open sights when I was a kid. It worked on the deer at 60 yards fine. But now that he hunts with me, I give him my 30-06(because 30-06) and I have it sighted in at MBPR and tell him to just point it at the caribou and pull the trigger if I range it inside 300yds. Works great. Takes him no additional skills to learn, just point, shoot.

 

[z987k]

The other end of this would be: if you need to dial or hold with a client that needs handholding that you just need to get closer. No holding high, no letting the dial get spun by accident. If it's inside of 250yds point and shoot. If it's further, get them closer.

If you want to shoot past 250 yds you ought to show up with a rifle that's wrung out and ready to go.

Correct. Crosshairs on the animal and that works, or don't shoot, since the client who doesn't show up with a rifle almost certainly isn't capable of anything more than that. No dialing, no holds at all are the way to go.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

The other end of this would be: if you need to dial or hold with a client that needs handholding that you just need to get closer. No holding high, no letting the dial get spun by accident. If it's inside of 250yds point and shoot. If it's further, get them closer.

If you want to shoot past 250 yds you ought to show up with a rifle that's wrung out and ready to go.

I don’t know where he’s guiding, but I would want my client to be successful even if he “doesn’t deserve it.”

When I worked in criminal defense, we kept a closet full of different uniform options in case our client came in looking like ass. And my NCOs squared them away even if their own didn’t.

It’s a customer service job. Make it easy for the client to be right and treat them well.

 

[z987k]

I don’t know where he’s guiding, but I would want my client to be successful even if he “doesn’t deserve it.”

When I worked in criminal defense, we kept a closet full of different uniform options in case our client came in looking like ass. And my NCOs squared them away even if their own didn’t.

It’s a customer service job. Make it easy for the client to be right and treat them well.

You don't want people chucking lead out at 400+ yards if they're not capable. You can get them inside 300 and be successful. If you can't, well, you can explain to them why you don't just show up and wing it if you want to take shots that take practice and skill. Absolutely no one that doesn't practice with their rifle should be shooting at anything past 300y guided or not. Injured or gutshot and unrecoverable animals is way worse than an unsuccessful client. Even guides owe respect to the animal.

I mean look at Cortina's ethical hunter challenge. Guys with PRS rigs that are quite practiced struggle at 500. You're going to have a client shooting beyond what is MPBR with no practice and a hunting rifle?
I'd be happy if the hunter with no rifle would put 3 into a 12in circle at 100 yards from a field position.

 

[elsb0048]

I don’t know where he’s guiding, but I would want my client to be successful even if he “doesn’t deserve it.”

It’s a customer service job. Make it easy for the client to be right and treat them well.

I wasn't so much trying to make a moral judgement of whether the client 'deserves' it or not. Just thinking on the closest thing to guiding I do with my friends that are newer to hunting and shooting. For all of them it would be a big risk of wounding a critter to take any shot past MPBR and they often just glaze over when I talk about any sort of trajectory or wind or anything. I think that for me the acceptable level of risk with kind of an un-prepared or unknown shooter would be inside MPBR.

At *SOME* point there will be a distance that is too far to shoot for the skillset of the hunter whether that's 250, 500, 700, or 1000. I think there is likely a fairly large portion of OP's clients that might fall into the same category of the folks that I've taught.

Now all that said I'm sure there are also clients who may not personally own the equipment but with a half-day of light instruction and range practice before hitting the hunting country could become proficient enough with the dialing and instruction from the guide to execute a longer shot that requires dialing, position building, etc.

Perhaps if OP has the time with his clients to do a little bit of intro and sussing out before the hunt, and/or guides in a place where it is a big bump in success rate to enable 300+ yd shots then it'd be worth it to have the loaner gun be more capable *and correspondingly more complicated*

 

[Formidilosus]

Anyone that thinks that majority of guides are not having or letting their hunters shoot at long range- regardless of how unskilled they are, are woefully out of touch.

 

[z987k]

Anyone that thinks that majority of guides are not having or letting their hunters shoot at long range- regardless of how unskilled they are, are woefully out of touch.

We're assuming the OP here, a guide, isn't a giant POS.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Clients will F up the folding mechanism on the HNT 26, It’s slower to deploy and will make them think they can shoot further than they should. A well designed traditional stock, ie Rokstok or ROK Lite would suit far more.

If a client has 18x of top end zoom, guess where that scope is going to end up?
10-12x max for such a rifle is more than sufficient and will help keep them in the scope and spotting the damn animal to begin with.

No reason for a barrel longer than 18”.

Yeah I agree with this. I thought this was a for you rifle, for a loaner, I would keep it 6.5mm .25 cal and below. Simple duplex reticle spf scope and a regular stock.

 

[wapitibob]

Buy a Tikka in 6.5 or 7 prc, stick a Trijicon on it, make your own yardage turret with an Avery label so even stevie wonder can dial it, and go hunt. I'd lean towards the 7 myself.

 

[cwitt]

We're assuming the OP here, a guide, isn't a giant POS.

Much appreciated..

 

[Mike Islander]

Definitely not my 6.5 Fieldcraft. Without practice light rifles are harder to shoot accurately.

308 and 30.06 Remington 700s? Yes, all game all day long.