On the lighter side caliber question

[6mm Remington]

My son's first elk with his 6mm Remington and a 90 gr. Nosler E-tip. She was 350 yards away standing. Hit her tight behind her right shoulder and the bullet angled slightly forward and exited her left shoulder. She went about 20 yards and dropped.



Ruger 1B in 6mm Remington - 100 gr. Nosler Partition. This bull was about 30 yards away. I didn't want him going down any more than he was because it really got nasty and I had to pack him up to the ridge top as it was. I shot him in the right shoulder and the bullet went in and took out his lungs and exited just in front of the shoulder on the left side. He stood and staggered a couple steps. Not wanting him to go anyplace further I shot him one more time in the neck and he dropped.



I've shot many coyotes, antelope, and deer with the 6mm Remington and it has always worked very well. Yes it most definitely light for elk and as we all know elk are one tough critter, but it will work. IN the 6mm or .243 good bullets certainly help. I am really partial to the Nosler E-tip, Partition, and accubond. They all work very well.

Here are one of each shot into water jugs at 25 yards out of my Ruger 1B. They each performed very well.



Here is a Partition and an E-tip into water jugs at 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards. I know sorry but I don't have a Partition from 300 yards yet. The water jugs were 1 gallon plastic ones you purchase in a store, or old gallon milk jugs I saved and filled with water. This test seemed to work pretty darn well. If I recall the jugs are 6 inches thick so 5 jugs is 30 inches of penetration!! As a comparison my 30-06 and my son's 300 WSM using Partitions or Accubonds penetrates the same distances. Usually the back side of jug 5 will stop them.

 

[6mm Remington]

And here is how they look from the top. The each opened nicely and hung together.



Here are the Accubond, Partition, and E-tip shown after the jugs at 400 yards.

 

[6mm Remington]

30-06 at 400 yards and 300 WSM at 500 yards. The 30-06 hit the particle board the jugs were sitting on and clipped it before it entered the jugs. That is why it is not quite as pretty of a mushroom. Simulating bone and hide right!



In this picture you can see how I line the jugs up. At the back of the center row you can see the 180 gr. Accubond out of the 300 WSM on the board just in front of jug number six. On the far right row, you can see the gouge from the 30-06 hitting the particle board before entering the jugs. Brutal test on that one!

 

[6mm Remington]

7x57 mauser, all mine are in Rugers never thought about that till just now, but great cartridge that will do the job

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Yes to 7x57 or 7mm Mauser, whatever you want to call it! A fantastic cartridge also and thanks for mentioning that one. It really is a sweetheart.

 

[GFY]

Interesting post to me as one who feels numbers and letters after the caliber are not really necessary. Am assuming you were inside of what is now called long range shooting,not hunting range. What bullets and weight were you using and do you feel the new copper bullets would be a wise choice now?

I have played around with the copper bullets some over the last few years and honestly I am still up in the air. I really like the idea of being able to shoot a lighter weight bullet at faster velocities. I am shooting 130 gr TTSX's out of the browning A-bolt .300 wsm at 3450 fps and this rifle shoots great groups at 300 and 400 yards. This load has worked well for my wife she has shot 3 elk and 3 deer with this combo and I really like the results with the bullets performance. All of her shots were between 150 and 275 yards. I will keep using this combo for the foreseeable future.

The last cow I shot with a .243 (weatherby vanguard sub moa)I shot with a 80 gr TTSX going 4320 fps I shot her right behind the shoulder (at 80 yards) and she went probably 150 yards with very little blood loss and pilled up. I'm not sure I would do this again given the choice of the other options I have. I think that the copper bullets need a little time to expand and this shot was a little on the short side for them. Again this riffle seems to like the copper bullets and groups them very well out to 500 yards. I like this combo too but have also begun experimenting with the berger vld 87 gr out of this rifle with good results. Only 1 whitetail doe and several coyotes with great results.

My .270 is also a browning a-bolt and this rifle doesn't seem to like the copper bullets and I shoot 130 gr NP. With this combo I have shot deer and elk out to 450 yards with great results.

I do not consider myself a "long range" guy and I always try to get myself into a very comfortable shooting position inside a very comfortable range, preferably inside 300 yds. I shoot a lot at longer ranges and am very confident with my equipment and depending on weather or not I can get a riffle to shoot copper well I am finding that I am drifting that direction. I would like to do some more tinkering with the bergers but have not found the time.

I have two boys 5 and 7, and if everything remains the same my choice would be to have them start out with a .243 until they can handle more recoil.

 

[hodgeman]

I've been messing around with the 7-08 for the last 5 years as my son is growing up and getting into hunting.

He's taken 4 caribou from 50-250 yds with 2 compact rifles and neither of us could be any happier with the performance of the cartridge. He's now 15 and ready for a full size rifle but has no plans to move away from the 7-08 at the time.

I'm not sure there's a better "under .30" cartridge out there. .308 is another option, but in the light, compact rifles they tend to belt kids around a bit more. In a full size rifle I can't tell the difference but my son could in a compact FWIW.

 

[Mr Drysdale]

7-08 in a Rem Model 7

Or 260 Rem

 

[Above Timber]

Hard to beat a 30-06, 308, or 270 with lite recoil rounds. The lite rounds can be purchased at bass pro or cabelas. It makes either of these calibers have the recoil of a 243. I purchased my 16 yrds. old son a savage 111 in 30-06 for his birthday last year the package came with a nikon scope. My son is only about 120 lbs. Great gun and with the lite loads the gun is super manageable for a teen shooter. Hornady make a lite load in a 125 sst polymer type bullet and Remington makes 125 in a core lock bullet for the 30-06. Not sure what the 308 or 270 options are, I know they are available. If you reload the recipe for the lite loads are on line. Here is a link https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...bfgZ4W7-VOqAvG3_w&sig2=RreVMGTpvQkV4A64-AzQOQ

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[Formidilosus]

I already have an older Ruger 7mm Mag that has dropped a lot of deer and elk. I'm thinking of buying a reasonably priced factory rifle (Howa 1500 possibly?) in a lighter caliber that would double as a first hunting rifle for my girlfriend's teenager as well as a decent deer rifle for me. The hunting would range from whitetail does in Nebraska to high country mule deer in Colorado. I've considered 7mm-08, 260 Rem, 25-.06, and .243. It would be nice if it was capable of taking elk as well (with the right bullet) but I don't want a youth hunter wounding an elk either. My inclination is that .308 might be getting kinda big but maybe I'm wrong. What I don't want is some boutique caliber that is a pain to find ammo for. I'd really value some opinions as the field is pretty wide right now! Thanks and good hunting!

Killing is about hitting. Hitting is about trigger time. Trigger time is about fun. Recoil is not fun. What an adult feels and what a child/teenager/most women feel is worlds apart. I've taught quite a few and none have chose anything over a 243win.... Unless it was a 223.


The 243Win with correct ammo is a monster killer and will smoke deer/elk/lopes just fine.

. I think that the copper bullets need a little time to expand and this shot was a little on the short side for them.

That is not how bullets work- "time to expand". Bullets (except for Berger VLD's) start expanding immediately upon contact and the higher the impact velocity, the more violent the expansion. Velocity is your friend with mono metal bullets- the more the better.


Theres no free lunch- deeper penetration= narrower wound channel. Wider wound channel= less penetration. I like bullets to give me the widest wound channel possible, while still penetrating deep enough.

 

[Formidilosus]

As for "reduced recoil/lite" loads for the 308, 30/06, etc.... I'd rather hunt every animal cited with a full tilt 223, than any "reduced recoil" loading....

 

[texag10]

Or 260 Rem

Didn't Remington model 7s in 260 come with some stupid twist rate?

 

[mtswampfox]

As for "reduced recoil/lite" loads for the 308, 30/06, etc.... I'd rather hunt every animal cited with a full tilt 223, than any "reduced recoil" loading....

Good point. Sounds like the basis for some sort of test between light- fast, heavy-slow. Not sure how slow the reduced loads are , just because had never thought about it.my favorite new toy is a 6mmtcu which drives an 80g nearly 3000 fps with less recoil than my 243 but at a much higher speed. Believe with a copper bullet would handle any deer in the south

 

[16Bore]

Kimber Montana in 243, 6.5 Creed, or 270 wouldn't be bad. Except you'd hoard it for yourself.

 

[Shrek]

7-08 Rem will do everything well. I'd say a 260 Rem but it's a crap shoot if a factory barrel will have a fast enough twist for the heavy for caliber Bullets that make it the best all around short action chambering.

 

[elkduds]

Put some serious hearing protection on that youngster @ the range. Noise is scary, and can impact flinching just like recoil.

As far as calibers, 6.5 CM is hot now for good reason. 7-08 does everything 308 does w more efficiency. In long action, 270 is equal w modern bullets to what 7 mm Remington Magnum was 20 years ago, w less recoil and noise. Varmints, pigs, deer, elk, all are fair game for 270. Pun intended.

Those sensitive to recoil can do the majority of their range work w reduced-recoil loads, then shoot full house loads @ game.

Note: in any caliber, the lighter the rifle, the heavier the recoil.

Tikka T3 is a great value.

 

[Trial153]

If you hand load consider a .257 Roberts.....

 

[16Bore]

Just keep in mind that hunting is 99 problems and caliber ain't one.

 

[hodgeman]

As for "reduced recoil/lite" loads for the 308, 30/06, etc.... I'd rather hunt every animal cited with a full tilt 223, than any "reduced recoil" loading....

I guess I don't understand this one... my "Managed Recoil" .308 loads are a 125gr Corelokt at 2660fps carrying nearly 2000ft/lbs. and bumps the shooter with about 10ft/lbs of recoil. Roughly equivalent to the 30-30WIN with a more aerodynamic bullet.

Full power 60gr .223 loads are 3100fps for 1300ft/lbs.... quite a bit less wounding potential than even a reduced .308.

 

[16Bore]

Don't try either......


Somehow it doesn't make sense for a fella to have a rig that's capable of softening up for a newbie. Not that a 223 isn't the cats ass for trigger time fun.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Just keep in mind that hunting is 99 problems and caliber ain't one.

Laughed when I read it, and sorry to say but will be stealing that line in the future.