O.H.P.

[4rcgoat]

Looking for some good alternatives to the barbell overhead press. Feel like I'm experiencing some impingement and would like to know what others are doing to build shoulder strength .
Thanks fellas.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

Not sure exactly what you’re experiencing as far as fatigue, nagging pain, etc. vs something more serious. That said here are some of my thoughts.

I have not done an OH press behind my neck for decades. Push press, hanging clean and press, a full clean and press… I’ll do everything in front of my face, nothing behind where you naturally want to strain your neck forward.
I didn’t go to the chiropractor until I was in my 40s. Go, find a good one that keeps your neck in alignment.
Actually lifting and alternate exercises… Overall all, reduce weight, increase reps, increase your pace with circuits/super sets, and decrease rest. Try dumbbells. Do Arnold Presses, Alternating DB press and good old DB raises for front, lateral and rear delt raises. Again, use dumbbells for things like alternating DB upright row. I almost never just do shrugs, I combine and do deadlift/shrugs. Recruits more muscle in a compound movement (DB or Barbell). Then, Farmers Carry. I am on a binge where I’m doing them almost every day no matter what muscles I’m working. They recruit more shoulder engagement than most people realize and they are safe.
Some thoughts anyways… Good luck.

 

[4rcgoat]

Not sure exactly what you’re experiencing as far as fatigue, nagging pain, etc. vs something more serious. That said here are some of my thoughts.

I have not done an OH press behind my neck for decades. Push press, hanging clean and press, a full clean and press… I’ll do everything in front of my face, nothing behind where you naturally want to strain your neck forward.
I didn’t go to the chiropractor until I was in my 40s. Go, find a good one that keeps your neck in alignment.
Actually lifting and alternate exercises… Overall all, reduce weight, increase reps, increase your pace with circuits/super sets, and decrease rest. Try dumbbells. Do Arnold Presses, Alternating DB press and good old DB raises for front, lateral and rear delt raises. Again, use dumbbells for things like alternating DB upright row. I almost never just do shrugs, I combine and do deadlift/shrugs. Recruits more muscle in a compound movement (DB or Barbell). Then, Farmers Carry. I am on a binge where I’m doing them almost every day no matter what muscles I’m working. They recruit more shoulder engagement than most people realize and they are safe.
Some thoughts anyways… Good luck.

Thanks for your reply, my post was vague so I'll clarify. I have in fact been performing the push press(in front of face as close as possible). I'm 46,framer by trade so shoulders are always fatigued, also shoot a compound bow which could be contributing to the discomfort. Range of motion is OK so not sure it's actually impingement. I do have a rack of dumbbells, got into barbell training just 2 years ago so I'm still in the infancy stages. I've been using Starting Strength as a basic template this year and do OK with the other lifts.

 

[Rick653]

Starting strength is a great program. I'm not sure what your warm up routine is like, but I would start there. I use a rubber band and do like a 10 minute warm up on upper body days.

With the band on a pullup bar I do pull downs, tricep extensions, rows, face pulls, then some mobility. Then from a perpendicular post I'll pin my elbow into my side and both push and pull the band from my body. Since I tore my bicep I've had to ensure I'm completely warmed up, and its worked for me since.

 

[4rcgoat]

Starting strength is a great program. I'm not sure what your warm up routine is like, but I would start there. I use a rubber band and do like a 10 minute warm up on upper body days.

With the band on a pullup bar I do pull downs, tricep extensions, rows, face pulls, then some mobility. Then from a perpendicular post I'll pin my elbow into my side and both push and pull the band from my body. Since I tore my bicep I've had to ensure I'm completely warmed up, and its worked for me since.

Warm up usually consists of empty bar,then slowly increasing weight, doing a few reps at each increment until I feel loose before doing the working sets. The band work is something I haven't visited in a while, think I'm putting too much emphasis on increasing the weight. Does everyone still agree that the push press is a good shoulder exercise ?

 

[*zap*]

Anyone who is strength training should do static and active hangs...best thing for shoulders. Ohp is the king of the upper body exercises. There are also 3 light weight/high rep dumbell exercises you can do to address shoulder issues @6:00. Also some pre lifting stretches @7:45. Just stopping doing what your doing will not fix impingement.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

Completely agree with the other guys on warming up. Different types or tools are out there, but make it a priority. I started really warming up well in my 20s and guess what, I have very rarely pulled and tweaked stuff since then.
By warm up, I go through an entire process that would actually classify as “pre-exhaust”. I work out around 0530, so I am stiff and I have to wade in slowly. If you talk with 100 different guys, I am on the extreme end of believing in warming up, others will do much less. I have always been flexible since early in my sports career and kept it throughout my career of operating in the terrain I have to work in. Flexibility is important climbing over downfall and it’s important the older you get.
I static stretch head to toe. Instead of bands, I use a long dowel for rotator cuff, back and obliques. Then use 5lb plates for about a half dozen different shoulder movements that are very similar to the guys above with bands. THEN, I start my actual lifting.
Getting strong is good don’t get me wrong, but the actual weight and #s don’t mean shit. Form vs. Function. True health, strength, mobility and fitness is everything.

 

[4rcgoat]

Completely agree with the other guys on warming up. Different types or tools are out there, but make it a priority. I started really warming up well in my 20s and guess what, I have very rarely pulled and tweaked stuff since then.
By warm up, I go through an entire process that would actually classify as “pre-exhaust”. I work out around 0530, so I am stiff and I have to wade in slowly. If you talk with 100 different guys, I am on the extreme end of believing in warming up, others will do much less. I have always been flexible since early in my sports career and kept it throughout my career of operating in the terrain I have to work in. Flexibility is important climbing over downfall and it’s important the older you get.
I static stretch head to toe. Instead of bands, I use a long dowel for rotator cuff, back and obliques. Then use 5lb plates for about a half dozen different shoulder movements that are very similar to the guys above with bands. THEN, I start my actual lifting.
Getting strong is good don’t get me wrong, but the actual weight and #s don’t mean shit. Form vs. Function. True health, strength, mobility and fitness is everything.

Completely agree with what you all are saying and appreciate the feedback. Years ago when all I had was a spare room and a rack of dumbbells, I did more high rep low weight stuff like goblet squats,reverse lunges,dumbell swings,etc... and seemed to be more flexible and not as stiff and sore as I have been with the barbell. Really want to give power lifting a chance so I've been keeping the weight to a modest level. I like the concept of power lifting for sheer strength, just not sure if it's the right approach....yet.

 

[*zap*]

Warming up is great but it will do little to rectify an existing impingement issue.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

There is definitely a place for true strength training and heavy weights. For sure. Just need to do it correctly. For true strength training… The premise of “Core strength” is on the right track; however, strengthening your posterior chain is actually what the body needs as it’s base for true strength.
I’d recommend following the WOD thread as well. Different guys with different programs, theories, diversity, etc. It’s a good crowd to hang with and get ideas from. Very positive and not a measuring contest.

Zap above is right though. If there is a mechanical injury, it needs dealt with and recovered from. Can’t just switch things up and ignore it.

 

[3325]

Dips.

I gave up the OHP. I tried to train it with a barbell, dumbbells (Arnold variation), and kettlebells. I also did the Turkish get-up. No variation felt good.

I now start my workout with standing dumbbell laterals and then move on to pull-ups before dips. I also do rear laterals and static hangs. My shoulders feel good. They didn’t feel dood when I would OHP.

Dips bother some people. I can do them pain free if I go slow, use a little forward lean, and don’t go below parallel. I use about a four second negative, a two second positive, and pause for about a second in the up and down position.

OHP variations have a reputation in some circles as being something “functional.” I dispute that. Seldom do I have to lift much overhead and when I do it is never that heavy - just how heavy a box are you putting on the top shelf, anyway? But one of the more common things I’ve done in the outdoors exert force downward. A steep scramble upward? Pulling followed by pushing downward. Going down a steep slope? Braking with the arm toward the slope has been common (like doing “negatives”).

I’ll take dips over OHP variations for functional any day if you can do them pain free.

 

[kayvon]

Try the Arnold press

 

[5MilesBack]

I hate the barbell for all upper body lifts. I seem to get some sort of impingement from all lifts with it, but with dumb bells I'm fine.

 

[Dmann]

I prefer to take dips over OHP variations.

 

[3325]

I prefer to take dips over OHP variations.

Agreed. If couldn’t do dips, I’d dumbbell bench press or floor press holding the dumbbells neutral grip or at the most a 45 degree angle - no elbows wide to feel the pecs working. I believe that’s probably gym-bro science.

 

[Rick653]

Warm up usually consists of empty bar,then slowly increasing weight, doing a few reps at each increment until I feel loose before doing the working sets. The band work is something I haven't visited in a while, think I'm putting too much emphasis on increasing the weight. Does everyone still agree that the push press is a good shoulder exercise ?

I would definitely do more of a warm up. The video Zap posted has some excellent information on it. Improve your mobility now and you'll get a better range of motion on your workouts. Better range of motion will lead to bigger improvements on your workouts

 

[Hoodie]

Look up Starting Strength technique videos for the press. A properly executed press shouldn't cause impingement. Lots of people go too wide for the grip, which can contribute to this.

This video has a good description of why impingement shouldn't occur.

 

[4rcgoat]

Look up Starting Strength technique videos for the press. A properly executed press shouldn't cause impingement. Lots of people go too wide for the grip, which can contribute to this.

This video has a good description of why impingement shouldn't occur.

I actually spent my time with covid at the end of last year reading Starting Strength. I like Rips simple approach and understand his system, so I've been referring to the book periodically to keep a good picture in my mind of the movements. I don't think I'm experiencing any actual impingement although that's how I labeled it, I don't experience pain while performing the move,I think my occupation along with shooting a compound bow aggravates them(usually left shoulder) so I'm thinking maybe o.h.p. just isn't right for me.

 

[4rcgoat]

Dips.

I gave up the OHP. I tried to train it with a barbell, dumbbells (Arnold variation), and kettlebells. I also did the Turkish get-up. No variation felt good.

I now start my workout with standing dumbbell laterals and then move on to pull-ups before dips. I also do rear laterals and static hangs. My shoulders feel good. They didn’t feel dood when I would OHP.

Dips bother some people. I can do them pain free if I go slow, use a little forward lean, and don’t go below parallel. I use about a four second negative, a two second positive, and pause for about a second in the up and down position.

OHP variations have a reputation in some circles as being something “functional.” I dispute that. Seldom do I have to lift much overhead and when I do it is never that heavy - just how heavy a box are you putting on the top shelf, anyway? But one of the more common things I’ve done in the outdoors exert force downward. A steep scramble upward? Pulling followed by pushing downward. Going down a steep slope? Braking with the arm toward the slope has been common (like doing “negatives”).

I’ll take dips over OHP variations for functional any day if you can do them pain free.

Appreciate the feedback, being mainly a structural framer I'm constantly lifting heavy objects and performing work above my head,one of the reasons I chose the push press. I'll probably just switch things up for a bit and incorporate some of the exercises that have been suggested, kinda need a change anyways.

 

[Hoodie]

In that case I'd say just do whatever compound pressing movements you can tolerate, and be sure to balance them with compound pulling movements in the same plane. I don't think vertical pressing movements with proper lockout require pulling movements to balance them out. That's not the case with horizontal pushing movements.

If you keep benching, dipping, etc. do a comparable amount of chins and rows. For direct shoulder work I'd look at dumbbell isolation movements like lateral raises and flys.