Nose to string different than Kisser Button?

[Kwandog]

So in order for me to get my nose to the string of my short ata bow I have to tilt my head a ton and its just not practical for me to repeat that much movement consistently every shot so I've switched to using a kisser.

Going and reading through older posts involving kisser buttons it sounds like some think that they aren't compatible with sliding sights are best for fixed sights due to the fact that longer shots require you to slightly tweak your anchor as your bow is angled up. I understand that your anchor will have to slightly adjust in order to line up your peep when shooting long distance. But can anyone explain how the anchor of the kisser button is any different in this regard than the nose to string anchor. Wouldn't they both be affected by this the same way?

 

[Marble]

I think a few pictures would usbunderstand better. One from the side and one from the back.

What you are describing is one of the reasons why I do not shoot a short ATA bow.

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[realunlucky]

Any time you change your anchor it changes your sight picture how do you control the consistency of multiple anchor points?

Adding another viable to the shot sequence is another failure point when the pressure to preforms comes along. Seems to defeat the whole purpose of practicing exactly the same everytime.

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[Jon_G]

I battled with this for a long time. With my last bow I had to use a nose button so I wouldn't have to tilt my head so you may want to try that. The Mach 30 has a string angle almost like that of a longer ATA bow so I no longer need a nose or kisser button with it.

I also found something that helped me a ton with a slider sight and to keep my anchor points the same every time. That is to put your peep in the middle of your sight tape range. For me, the max range I shoot is 80 yards because I practice for hunting and I won't shoot anything past like 65 but I gave myself a few more yards to shoot at the max of 80 yards that my local range allows. I found 20-80 to be a happy medium for me.

I'll explain further. Measure the distance from your 20 yard mark to your 80 yard mark (if 80 is your max range) with calipers and divide that distance by 2. You then use your mover pin and set it at that mark. Adjust your peep to where you can see clearly out of it. That way you won't have to tilt your head and you'll be able to keep the same anchor points on your face and on your string when you shoot from 20-80. I hope that makes sense. It made absolutely no sense to me until I tried it.

 

[Kwandog]

@Jon_G Great tip. It makes sense that doing that would definitely be better then going from a centered peep at 20 to then sliding the sight to 80. I will for sure be doing this.
Would you think there would be any disadvantage to using a kisser button in this situation?

 

[Kwandog]

@realunlucky I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. If you draw your bow and look through your peep at 20 and then slide your sight to a much further range (say 80 yards), your peep will no longer line up with your sight correctly. Because of this you will have to adjust your anchor to now have your peep line up with your sight.

I've read some posts/article saying that because of this the kisser button is not good to use with sliding sights. But I'm curious how it is any different than touching nose to string. Regardless wether you touch your nose to the string or have a kisser button you still need to adjust your anchor in order to compensate.

 

[Wheels]

I also found it helpful with a 3 pin slider to use the bottom pin as your floater pin, you don't have to slide the sight housing as far when shooting longer distances. Single pin I'm no help from what is posted above.

 

[nubraskan]

I don't use a nose button, but where I touch my nose does change depending on the distance of the shot. I think as long as you're touching something and not just floating it out there it won't be an issue. The whole point of touching the string is just to make sure you're not falling out of your peep

 

[KyleR1985]

I shot the last few years with the nose button, but on a long ATA bow. I got tired of dragging around an 8lb bow banging on everything, especially in the whitetail woods.

I went back to a 29ata Mathews. It had a nose button to start. Put on a new string to try without and don’t notice much difference in my shooting. It’s warm weather though. The spikes improve tactile function when your nose is numb.



I’m a 30” draw. String angle is obviously steeper with the shorter ATA.

I touch my nose to the string.

I set my peep to line up perfectly with my sight housing in the middle of my effective range. With my top pin on targets I shoot out to 90, hunting wouldn’t go past 80. So I set peep to be perfect at 40.

I repeat my anchor regardless of distance. This results in the top rim of my sight housing being covered by peep on close shots, and the bottom of the housing being covered on long shots.


Reference points are reference points. My anchor is same every time. Grip same every time. Nose touches string every time. My eye falls where it falls, I don’t change it.

I shoot as accurately and precisely this way at every distance. I’ve tried adjusting my line of sight to get sight housing lined up and everything falls apart fast.

The bottom line is the shorter ATA is just not as repeatable at long distance. But it is well within acceptable for me. A million things would have to line up for me to shoot an elk at 80 yards. But I have the confidence in my equipment and skills to do so. I don’t even think about it.

Because 99% of what I will be doing is inside of 60 yards. And from 30-60, the housing is lined up just fine.




Probably unrelated. But things like this tend to expose poor form and poor bow/arrow tune and setup. Taking the time to get everything tip top before setting peep height and sight tapes and what not saves a lot of frustration.

 

[Jon_G]

@Jon_G Great tip. It makes sense that doing that would definitely be better then going from a centered peep at 20 to then sliding the sight to 80. I will for sure be doing this.
Would you think there would be any disadvantage to using a kisser button in this situation?

I no longer use a nose or kisser button because they were distracting me from focusing on my anchor point on my face which I think everyone will agree is much more important. I can put a kisser button in the same spot every time and still have a slightly different point of contact on my face. Instead, I focused shot after shot on maintaining the same point of contact on my face.

That, along with putting your peep in the middle of your ranges, and you I can almost guarantee you'll have a more consistent shot time after time.

I also have to say that I do not fully agree with @nubraskan respectfully. The point of a button is not to make sure you don't fall out of your peep. A button serves as an anchor point so you have a more repetive shot with every shot perhaps that is what he meant. I'm not saying he is wrong but perhaps it was not worded as he intended. A button will not sit in the same spot once you slide your sight down. But, it will definitely not move as much if you set your peep in the middle of your ranges like I mentioned before and like @KyleR1985 also just mentioned.

 

[sndmn11]

@realunlucky I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. If you draw your bow and look through your peep at 20 and then slide your sight to a much further range (say 80 yards), your peep will no longer line up with your sight correctly. Because of this you will have to adjust your anchor to now have your peep line up with your sight.

I think you are missing out on the purpose of a peep sight. It is fixed along with everything else in your shooting form. Your anchor should be repeatable regardless of what distance you are shooting at. The variable is the front sight in relation to the distance. If you find yourself changing your anchor when changing distance or uphill/downhill, you aren't shooting anywhere close to your full potential.

 

[Jon_G]

I think you are missing out on the purpose of a peep sight. It is fixed along with everything else in your shooting form. Your anchor should be repeatable regardless of what distance you are shooting at. The variable is the front sight in relation to the distance. If you find yourself changing your anchor when changing distance or uphill/downhill, you aren't shooting anywhere close to your full potential.

Correct, but OP is saying that your anchor point tends to change at longer distances because you can no longer see as clearly out of your peep and he is also absolutely correct.

If I'm not mistaking, the only way to somewhat prevent that from happening is to set your peep at the middle of your ranges like I keep repeating. You won't be scrunched up at 20 and you also don't have to adjust very much at all when you shoot at your longest distance as long as you are realistic about what your long range shot will be which should be under like 100 yards in order for this to be most effective. I would even say it's better to 80 yards and under if you do have your shortest yardage be set to 20. I hope that makes sense. If not, I am certain @Billy Goat can chime in on this.

 

[nubraskan]

I no longer use a nose or kisser button because they were distracting me from focusing on my anchor point on my face which I think everyone will agree is much more important. I can put a kisser button in the same spot every time and still have a slightly different point of contact on my face. Instead, I focused shot after shot on maintaining the same point of contact on my face.

That, along with putting your peep in the middle of your ranges, and you I can almost guarantee you'll have a more consistent shot time after time.

I also have to say that I do not fully agree with @nubraskan respectfully. The point of a button is not to make sure you don't fall out of your peep. A button serves as an anchor point so you have a more repetive shot with every shot perhaps that is what he meant. I'm not saying he is wrong but perhaps it was not worded as he intended. A button will not sit in the same spot once you slide your sight down. But, it will definitely not move as much if you set your peep in the middle of your ranges like I mentioned before and like @KyleR1985 also just mentioned.

Yes you stated it better than I did upon re-reading my own post, I think we're saying the same thing. The button will have to slightly move position on your nose based on your shot distance / slider position, but it will be easier to keep in one spot during the shot.

 

[IdahoBeav]

I shoot a single pin slider, so this involves a moving anchor point at different shot distances. I set my peep height for best comfort at 40 yards. Any shots where the sight is adjusted for distance require an anchor point higher on the face, and the opposite for distances longer than 40 yards- lower on the face. I shoot hinge releases, so the anchor point works basically like a jawbone cheek weld against my knuckles.

 

[sndmn11]

Correct, but OP is saying that your anchor point tends to change at longer distances because you can no longer see as clearly out of your peep and he is also absolutely correct.

The anchor shouldn't be changing, it is fixed just like when shooting a fixed sight rifle you don't raise and lower your head for various distances while also adjusting either sight. Only one variable is adjusted, never two or more because you cannot be precise in repeating two variables.

 

[Kwandog]

@sndmn11 If the scope on a rifle lowered or rose with different distances then yes your anchor would change when shooting a rifle.You have to adjust your anchor to see through your peep at longer ranges if using a sliding sight. If you don't realize that then you're not shooting at distances far enough for it to be noticeable or your anchor is not as "fixed" as you think and you're making adjustments without knowing it.

 

[nubraskan]

The anchor shouldn't be changing, it is fixed just like when shooting a fixed sight rifle you don't raise and lower your head for various distances while also adjusting either sight. Only one variable is adjusted, never two or more because you cannot be precise in repeating two variables.

The anchor does have to change though based on the position of the slider. The bow angle has to change from a close shot to a far shot, and when you change the angle but maintain the peep to eye position your anchor position will have to change. Unless I'm misunderstanding, a rifle is probably not a good comparison because your sights do not slide vertically any appreciable degree, unless you're talking about the old flip up range sights, in which case you absolutely have to move your head to line them up at long distances.

 

[IdahoBeav]

The anchor does have to change though based on the position of the slider. The bow angle has to change from a close shot to a far shot, and when you change the angle but maintain the peep to eye position your anchor position will have to change. Unless I'm misunderstanding, a rifle is probably not a good comparison because your sights do not slide vertically any appreciable degree, unless you're talking about the old flip up range sights, in which case you absolutely have to move your head to line them up at long distances.

View attachment 759799

on a sliding sight, it works just like this, except on a bow, the rear is fixed with respect to the weapon and the blade (pin) on the end of the muzzle is what moves up and down. The housing for the pin(s) moves, and the housing ring must be aligned with the peep ring.

 

[sndmn11]

@sndmn11 If the scope on a rifle lowered or rose with different distances then yes your anchor would change when shooting a rifle.You have to adjust your anchor to see through your peep at longer ranges if using a sliding sight.

Your anchor remains the same, always. Read your last sentence and think through how one could see through their peep, keep their anchor the same, and utilize the muscles that provide the finest movement in the human body. Use your eyes.

It is the same concept as shooting uphill or downhill; you aren't keeping your shoulders level and moving your arms up and down, you are maintaining that anchor and form regardless because it is consistent and repeatable. You are using your waist as the hinge rather than altering your form and changing your anchor.

 

[Jon_G]

Your anchor remains the same, always. Read your last sentence and think through how one could see through their peep, keep their anchor the same, and utilize the muscles that provide the finest movement in the human body. Use your eyes.

It is the same concept as shooting uphill or downhill; you aren't keeping your shoulders level and moving your arms up and down, you are maintaining that anchor and form regardless because it is consistent and repeatable. You are using your waist as the hinge rather than altering your form and changing your anchor.

I totally understand what you're saying and I'm not agreeing with anyone else because I didn't scroll up and read their other opinions but I do have to disagree in the sense that there's no way you can slide your sight to say 100 yards and see through it in the same way that you do at say 20 yards. You absolutely have to readjust your anchor point and I don't think you can tell me I'm wrong.

The only way to not have to readjust your anchor is the way that everyone keeps repeating and that is to set your peep in the middle of your ranges. I like my peep in between 20-80 because after that you do start to fall out of your peep. At least for me. What's your take on this?