308 or 6.5 cm

[vonb]

I like .308 over 6.5. I have both. I like frontal diameter and exits.

 

[grfox92]

I like .308 over 6.5. I have both. I like frontal diameter and exits.

What is frontal diameter doing for you?


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[grfox92]

So... for the standard east coast hunter, im thinking the 308 is a better choice than the creed, here me out. For what it's worth, I have both. Tikka upr in the creed, cva cascade xt in 308.

My argument begins with the premise that your going to be limiting yourself to the ethical range of 300 yds. Yes, many of us sling lead past 300, but what are your honest odds of an ethical cold bore hit / kill when you lengthen it out?

So... 308, shooting a 130 speer leaves the muzzle at 3,250 with energy at 3067, 300 yd energy at 1400, drop at 3, 10.91"

6.5 cm shooting a 135 berger leaves the muzzle at 2715 w/ energy at 2293, 300 yd energy 1590, drop at 3, 13"

Therefore the 308 crushes it in muzzle energy & drop out to max ethical range. At 200 yds the 308 is still up 43 pounds of energy.

What does the 6.5 win? 6.5 might be the milder recoiling cartridge, but in today's world of supressors and especially braked supressors, is that a valid point for an adult shooter?

Yes the 6.5 is the 300 yard and beyond hands down winner, but if your not using its long range abilities, the og smokes it. Honestly, the elr hunters are choosing 6.5 prc, 7prc, and the 300's anyhow...

Is marketing the only reason the 6.5 is the #2 rifle cartridge today?

Below is the 308 load development target... for holes in paper at 100, the 6.5 is gonna have its hands full there too.

The entire premise of your original post is rooted in outdated dogma that has zero relevency to what the end result is for what you are looking for.

Energy is irrelevent. The 6.5 CM out performs the .308 in terminal ballistics with virtually any bullet / combination.

My 6.5 Creedmor carries enough velocity to effectively kill out to 850 yards. My
.308 is out of gas at 550 yards.

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[Win54]

If the new Federal plus peak ammo performs as advertised it should be an easy choice for the Creedmoor.

 

[Lv_techs]

So... for the standard east coast hunter, im thinking the 308 is a better choice than the creed, here me out. For what it's worth, I have both. Tikka upr in the creed, cva cascade xt in 308.

My argument begins with the premise that your going to be limiting yourself to the ethical range of 300 yds. Yes, many of us sling lead past 300, but what are your honest odds of an ethical cold bore hit / kill when you lengthen it out?

So... 308, shooting a 130 speer leaves the muzzle at 3,250 with energy at 3067, 300 yd energy at 1400, drop at 3, 10.91"

6.5 cm shooting a 135 berger leaves the muzzle at 2715 w/ energy at 2293, 300 yd energy 1590, drop at 3, 13"

Therefore the 308 crushes it in muzzle energy & drop out to max ethical range. At 200 yds the 308 is still up 43 pounds of energy.

What does the 6.5 win? 6.5 might be the milder recoiling cartridge, but in today's world of supressors and especially braked supressors, is that a valid point for an adult shooter?

Yes the 6.5 is the 300 yard and beyond hands down winner, but if your not using its long range abilities, the og smokes it. Honestly, the elr hunters are choosing 6.5 prc, 7prc, and the 300's anyhow...

Is marketing the only reason the 6.5 is the #2 rifle cartridge today?

Below is the 308 load development target... for holes in paper at 100, the 6.5 is gonna have its hands full there too.

I’d use the 6.5, it would be good for pretty much everything with the exception of Elk. Yes people use it for elk but a magnum cartridge would do it better.

 

[coyotekilla]

The entire premise of your original post is rooted in outdated dogma that has zero relevency to what the end result is for what you are looking for.

Energy is irrelevent. The 6.5 CM out performs the .308 in terminal ballistics with virtually any bullet / combination.

My 6.5 Creedmor carries enough velocity to effectively kill out to 850 yards. My
.308 is out of gas at 550 yards.

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How do you measure a bullets performance?
Is it measured in inches of penetration?
Is it measured in energy transfer to a given gel block size?

I want my bullet to dump 100% of its energy inside 12" of penetration.

If I hunted moose, cape buffalo, African plains game, my needs might change, but for a PA varmit & deer hunter, im not certain the 6.5 creed is anything more than readily available ammo...

 

[Choupique]

I still have some fudd in my blood and I like the .308 for regular ole deer huntin.

Surplus ammo, eternal barrel life, whats not to love?

 

[Lv_techs]

If the new Federal plus peak ammo performs as advertised it should be an easy choice for the Creedmoor.

Is that supposed to be 6.5 PRC velocity?

 

[grfox92]

How do you measure a bullets performance?
Is it measured in inches of penetration?
Is it measured in energy transfer to a given gel block size?

I want my bullet to dump 100% of its energy inside 12" of penetration.

If I hunted moose, cape buffalo, African plains game, my needs might change, but for a PA varmit & deer hunter, im not certain the 6.5 creed is anything more than readily available ammo...

Bullet performance is determined by the speed of your bullet. There is not a single bullet manufacturer who cites energy as a metric for bullet performance.

"Dumping energy" is a made up thing from the past. It doesnt mean anything. Animals die from tissue damage leading to blood loss.

Tissue damage is determined by the bullets performance. The bullets performace is determined by the speed of the bullet at the time of impact. The amount of energy the bullet is carrying doesn't change the bullets performance.

Having said all that, what does energy have to do with killing animals?

Edit** to answer your first question a bullets performance is measured in the size of the wound channel it created.

 

[Norcal18]

I’d use the 6.5, it would be good for pretty much everything with the exception of Elk. Yes people use it for elk but a magnum cartridge would do it better.

Might want to go read these threads with an open mind and see if you still think that

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[Choupique]

Animals die from tissue damage leading to blood loss.

Pawpaw used to say you gotta break em down. Put the whole deer on top the barrel and get both front legs with the first shot, then aim for the neck* and he killed a pile of deer. So remember kids, it doesnt even really have to be dead, it just has to be able to not get away and then you can make it dead by any method of your choosing!


*he didnt own a rifle and only used buckshot

 

[Win54]

Is that supposed to be 6.5 PRC velocity?

It is supposed to exceed the 6.5 PRC with the same barrel length. I have chronographed several 7 mm Backcountry rifles that did exactly what the box numbers said so I have good expectations for the “ Plus Peak “ technology.

 

[RME]

Pawpaw used to say you gotta break em down. Put the whole deer on top the barrel and get both front legs with the first shot, then aim for the neck* and he killed a pile of deer. So remember kids, it doesnt even really have to be dead, it just has to be able to not get away and then you can make it dead by any method of your choosing!


*he didnt own a rifle and only used buckshot

I still see a few old timers in the woods using buckshot. Hunting in the Palmettos I'm sure a lot of those guys look at it the same way.

 

[LeftyWilbury]

your 308 is a cva and your 6.5 is a tikka. obviously use the 6.5

 

[Laelkhunter]

Back in the day when "prepping" was the thing, the nod would go to the .308 because when society falls, that ammo would be available due to its military applications. These days (is prepping still a thing?) sounds like it would be a toss up for your needs.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Pawpaw used to say you gotta break em down. Put the whole deer on top the barrel and get both front legs with the first shot, then aim for the neck* and he killed a pile of deer. So remember kids, it doesnt even really have to be dead, it just has to be able to not get away and then you can make it dead by any method of your choosing!


*he didnt own a rifle and only used buckshot

And lead him enough so that you don't catch any of the deer dogs with buckshot.

 

[Tkrazy]

How do you measure a bullets performance?
Is it measured in inches of penetration?
Is it measured in energy transfer to a given gel block size?

“Energy transfer” is not how bullets kill.

Adequate penetration through vital tissue, and the amount of tissue damaged by the bullet is what matters.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I’d use the 6.5, it would be good for pretty much everything with the exception of Elk. Yes people use it for elk but a magnum cartridge would do it better.

Well the 6.5CM is about to have magnum cartridge velocity (as good or better than 6.5PRC with +Peak ammo).

 

[FLS]

I have both and I’ve killed a bunch of game with both. In similar rifles the 6.5 CM kicks less. If you want to practice at longer distances, the lower recoil and less wind drift makes getting consistent hits easier.