North dakota mule deer condition

[S.Clancy]

Show me empirical data how these archery tags have more of an impact than rifle tags, or winter. No way I buy it. I’ve never seen archery mule deer tags anywhere make a meaningful impact on population. It’s too hard. Tag allotments don’t mean dead deer, filled tags do. Percentage wise, there aren’t many of those with archery tackle.

They seem to make an impact in AZ

 

[wind gypsy]

Three hundred thousand for the sheep raffle tag. 3.1 million in non resident pheasant license. The sheep are expensive to keep around.

If they are expensive to keep around why do most of the auction proceeds go to pheasants and deer?

Edit: probably just a matter of pheasants bringing in more $ per $ invested? Kind of sad if that's the case that big game $ isn't spent on bettering big game and instead making more $ off ditch parrots.

 

[Gutshot007]

Have not heard pheasants referred to as "ditch parrots" . Thats a good one . Closest is geese as "sky carp" and squirrels as "tree rats" .

 

[KurtR]

If they are expensive to keep around why do most of the auction proceeds go to pheasants and deer?

Edit: probably just a matter of pheasants bringing in more $ per $ invested? Kind of sad if that's the case that big game $ isn't spent on bettering big game and instead making more $ off ditch parrots.

Do they? Part of the selling point of giving a coveted sd sheep tag is all the money goes to keeping sheep around. They are a fragile species and really management intensive here. We went from being a little known secret to blown up when it comes to deer hunting. A lot of nr cut their own throat. Other western states need nr big game sales to fund a lot of their game and fish we don’t. Even in a bad winter or bad hatch people still come to shoot pen raised birds it’s an income the state can count on. waterfowl has a low license number but that has kept a lot of land from not being leased up. Glad my grandpa was on that board in the 60’s and got it put in place.

 

[KurtR]

Have not heard pheasants referred to as "ditch parrots" . Thats a good one . Closest is geese as "sky carp" and squirrels as "tree rats" .

Snow geese are sky carp

 

[wind gypsy]

Do they? Part of the selling point of giving a coveted sd sheep tag is all the money goes to keeping sheep around. They are a fragile species and really management intensive here. We went from being a little known secret to blown up when it comes to deer hunting. A lot of nr cut their own throat. Other western states need nr big game sales to fund a lot of their game and fish we don’t. Even in a bad winter or bad hatch people still come to shoot pen raised birds it’s an income the state can count on. waterfowl has a low license number but that has kept a lot of land from not being leased up. Glad my grandpa was on that board in the 60’s and got it put in place.

GOHUNT // The Hunting Company

GOHUNT empowers hunters with the tools, technology, gear, and resources they need to get the most out of their time in the field.

www.gohunt.com

Unless it's changed since ^ article, more $ from the sheep auction tags goes into "boosting pheasant hunting in the state" than the sheep that generated the $.

SDGFP is planning on its bighorn sheep hunting license, which goes for about $85,000 in the Wild Sheep Foundation’s annual auction, to raise more money. That way, any funds that are “in excess of $85,000” will be split equally between two funding sources rather than all of it going back into the state’s bighorn sheep auction fund. Half will go into the state’s game production areas while the other half will go into the Second Century Habitat Fund, which is a nonprofit created by the governor “to boost pheasant hunting in the state,”

 

[KurtR]

GOHUNT // The Hunting Company

GOHUNT empowers hunters with the tools, technology, gear, and resources they need to get the most out of their time in the field.

www.gohunt.com

Unless it's changed since ^ article, more $ from the sheep auction tags goes into "boosting pheasant hunting in the state" than the sheep that generated the $.

That’s even better at least a resource that is available to everyone is benefited.

 

[Hill Difficulty]

This post is an attempt to respond to the ND hunt quality conversation that started at #10. Just my personal observations + some rational inference. Am making a case about how well-meaning tag policies can impact a special geographic destination in ways that people might not think/discuss.

My attempt here is to show how a seemingly innocent resident tag policy can magnify the impact on the destination - so general travel activity, pressure on game, road and off-road traffic, trash, campsites, vehicles (truck, camper, ATV), quality of experience. It's all the stuff we talk and care and gripe about.

ND Badlands and MT Breaks: As hunter destinations, there are major similarities shared by Badlands mule deer and Missouri Breaks elk (resident tag context).

Before I compare, note how big game hunters can be segmented as two types:

• #1 Type ALWAYS hunts in groups of 3 or LESS (so 3, 2, or alone). Is self-sufficient, serious, minimalist, careful, adaptive, less likely to drive around, sensitive/very low impact by intention, 75% of poops occur away from camp
• #2 Type ALWAYS hunts in groups of 3 or MORE. Is more reliant, enjoys being with others, very likely to be in a vehicle during hunting hours, less sensitive/less concern about impact, 75% of poops occur at camp

***Important - pls understand that I'm not moralizing here.***

The #1 Type hunter is NOT going to the Badlands with multiple vehicles, ATVs, generators,... The #2 Type is much more likely to bring all the frills and creature comforts + 4 to 6 trucks in camp driving around most of the day.

My exposure to the Breaks started 20 years ago as a non-res archery elk hunter. I was blown away by the place + the quantity and quality of elk. Everything was amazing expect the Breaks was overrun by #2 Type impact - there were areas with pods of big tents, trucks parked, boats buzzing, unburied poop and TP everywhere! What occurred to me at the time is that there would be considerably less #2 Type impact if MT were to limit resident tags by draw. Just like the Breaks, when ND residents are guaranteed a tag, the resident friends & family groups can count on bringing all their stuff to the Badlands.

My point: The Badlands is a very special and limited geographic resource with a lot to offer. Unfortunately, every archery hunter's experience is tainted (no one escapes this) by the bombardment of group hunters with all their stuff. Like the Breaks of years past, there is way too much impact going on. When ND or any state allows guaranteed resident tags for the most premium and limited destinations, they're dramatically increasing the likelihood for groups to overrun the landscape. If ND were to limit the social group guarantee, those same hunters would be much less likely to seek the Badlands as a destination.

I have no issue with group guys. Am just trying to show that group guys would not hunt the Badlands if tags were not guaranteed. Most would adapt by hunting areas that are better suited to handle the groups and their stuff. Easy fix!

Conclusion: Am not at all utopian. I am a believer in Christ, who as a hunter recognizes that the messiness we see and wrestle over are the acts and results of man's sin. The good news is that God has provided us a way, through Jesus Christ, so that we can be reconciled to Him forever. My own hope for a better place is settled by the promise (Rev 21) of a new (physical) heavens and a new (physical) earth that will be realized with perfect bodies. And better, can enjoy all of it with Christ and without sin - eternally!

Happy Easter!

 

[nodakian]

As to the original question regarding winter impact: based on my observations today, winter didn't appear to hurt the MD at all. Groups of 10-15 everywhere in the area we were turkey hunting. Standing on the roads, lounging in the sunshine...could have hit them with rocks. And they're looking healthy.

 

[william schmaltz]

Spring survey documents 29% decline in western North Dakota mule deer

Game and Fish conducts the spring mule deer survey to assess mule deer abundance in the Badlands. It is conducted after snowmelt and before trees begin to leaf out.

www.thedickinsonpress.com

 

[NDGuy]

Spring survey documents 29% decline in western North Dakota mule deer

Game and Fish conducts the spring mule deer survey to assess mule deer abundance in the Badlands. It is conducted after snowmelt and before trees begin to leaf out.

www.thedickinsonpress.com

Yep, gonna start building my muley points planning on going in 5-6 years

 

[Gutshot007]

Almost a 1/3 down does not look good .

 

[jsad]

Heavy snow the first week of rifle season may have been a benefit. It kept the pumpkin patrol from driving all the trails on public land where my kid and I hunted. Hardly any vehicles on the roads and no one walking. By mid January things had melted nicely, and I saw plenty of deer.

Separate topic, but the 16 day rifle season sucks. I don't have any brilliant ideas but something needs to be done to spread out the pressure.

its probably not a very hot idea but a part of me feels like they should put the mule deer units into a draw system for all bow hunters, I love going out there every year bow hunting but ive also noticed more and more ppl are doing the same and i feel like the deer have pressure on them most of the year. campers/hikers/bikers/horse back riders. and then hunting comes beginning of September ends in January by that time they are fighting the cold and food shortage. i feel like should somehow limit activity out there and only way that make sense to me is set x amount of bow tags available and have a draw system... id sure miss going out there every year but i also what good quality bucks. just my opinion that im sure ppl wont like

 

[jsad]

Lots of talk about decimation of mule deer due to snow/winter in western mountain states . What are you guys seeing in north dakota ?

Its gone down hill pretty fast seems like

 

[ndhtr]

its probably not a very hot idea but a part of me feels like they should put the mule deer units into a draw system for all bow hunters, I love going out there every year bow hunting but ive also noticed more and more ppl are doing the same and i feel like the deer have pressure on them most of the year. campers/hikers/bikers/horse back riders. and then hunting comes beginning of September ends in January by that time they are fighting the cold and food shortage. i feel like should somehow limit activity out there and only way that make sense to me is set x amount of bow tags available and have a draw system... id sure miss going out there every year but i also what good quality bucks. just my opinion that im sure ppl wont like

I agree they should make it a draw for archery mule deer. I know a lot of people would be pretty upset about it but the increased hunting pressure over the last few years gets very frustrating. During the 2023 archery season I experienced lower deer numbers and did not see as many quality bucks as I usually see.

 

[Scoot]

I agree they should make it a draw for archery mule deer. I know a lot of people would be pretty upset about it but the increased hunting pressure over the last few years gets very frustrating. During the 2023 archery season I experienced lower deer numbers and did not see as many quality bucks as I usually see.

I definitely agree that the numbers and quality were down, but the cause has little to do with archery. Last winter put an ass kicking on the deer.

 

[jsad]

I definitely agree that the numbers and quality were down, but the cause has little to do with archery. Last winter put an ass kicking on the deer.

I agree. I’m just talking about the amount of pressure. The success rate is fairly small as a bow hunter out there. Minimizing pressure would help.

 

[Scoot]

I totally get it! However, part of the NDG&F's job is to maximize opportunity. Given that the success rate is what it is with archery tackle, it's an opportunity to get more people in the field. But... I totally get your point- it sucks when everywhere you turn you run into people. I find that frustrating as heck. So... the NDG&F has to balance those things too, IMO. I'm not sure what the time is that it should be a draw hunt. Maybe now, maybe not. I hope not, but like everything else, it likely will happen.

Sadly, I'm a NR now, so it's a draw hunt for me already! I sure miss the days when it was my guaranteed hunt. Maybe someday again...

 

[gabedenzine]

I totally get it! However, part of the NDG&F's job is to maximize opportunity. Given that the success rate is what it is with archery tackle, it's an opportunity to get more people in the field. But... I totally get your point- it sucks when everywhere you turn you run into people. I find that frustrating as heck. So... the NDG&F has to balance those things too, IMO. I'm not sure what the time is that it should be a draw hunt. Maybe now, maybe not. I hope not, but like everything else, it likely will happen.

Sadly, I'm a NR now, so it's a draw hunt for me already! I sure miss the days when it was my guaranteed hunt. Maybe someday again...

I drew archery this year out there with 3 points as a non-resident. What's everyone's take now that they cut down the NR tags for archery any-deer significantly (not exactly sure, something from 8XX tags down to 3XX tags.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

What's everyone's take now that they cut down the NR tags for archery any-deer significantly (not exactly sure, something from 8XX tags down to 3XX tags.

Take on what ?
Pressure ? Still will see a pile of people as a majority of the pressure comes from residents and they are still OTC
Deer #'s, up some after a great moisture year last summer and an easy winter but still not back to where it was pre 21' drought with harsh winters to follow
Age Class: still mature bucks to be found but not nearly as many as there was 5-10 years ago