Noob Optics Question

Napperm4

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Wow sweet offer, careful I may take you up on that. I just need to cure my own ignorance when it comes to glass. Right now I'm looking at $800-1000 10x42s and so far the leupolds, zeiss conquest HDs and razors are what I have been able to look through albeit in a store with good lighting. To the point made earlier maybe i will just save up for swaros or leica so that I don't wonder what I am missing.

How much different are 1000 binos over 2000 binos?

Not trying to hijack, I just want to see this conversation keep going.

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$1000-$2000 difference is a bit of a loaded question. I’ve used value glass that was as good or better than higher priced glass. (Non alpha stuff)

I know what I like to my eyes after spending weeks a year behind glass for many years. That said, my brother is in the same experience and he has a completely different preference for his glass.

I’ll give an example of 2 I’ve used.

Vortex Razor HD - $999.00
Swarovski SLC - $1899.00

1. Value - I sold the razors $550, the SLC’s $1600. Big difference in retaining value for something that was the same ownership period of 2 years and was in like new condition.

2. Quality Control - I’ll put this in the context of “I’m unlucky” but the razors (honestly every optic myself or my partners have had from Vortex) had to go in for multiple warranty trips. Razors were collimation issues and internal fogging. The swaros went for cleaning.

3. Warranty - yes, vortex has a great warranty program. Doesn’t help when you need your glass for scouting / hunting and it’s away for repair. Swaro has been awesome to deal with too. I phoned to order some strap connectors I misplaced and they sent me for no charge, eyecups, objective covers, ocular covers and the strap connectors. Express whipped with the week. I’m in Canada so that’s really impressive given the customs delays. Never had an actual failure with the swarovskis.

4. Mechanics - Optics contain a lot of moving parts. Aside from glass, prisms and coatings it’s another area where the lower priced optics save money.

5. Business Model - No fault warranty means that a portion of every purchase is dedicated to replacement costs for life for every product produced. Think of how many optics are out there and the contingency fund that the company needs to survive and remain profitable. That means less dollars into the end product, materials, R&D etc to subsidize a warranty you may never personally use

6. Eye fatigue - It’s an issue even between classes in the same brand of optics (Maven, Vortex, Nikon, Zeiss, Swaro for what I’ve used) the lower class binoculars are usually less comfortable and much harder on the eyes. If you’re just picking them up for a quick look you could be and usually are fine. Spending a couple 8-10 hour days behind them and the headaches and tired eyes set in

7. Chromatic Aberration - this is something I am very sensitive to personally. It’s a fringing around what you’re looking at caused by the separation of wavelengths of different coloured light when passing through the lens elements of an optical instrument. Example, looking at an animal on a snowy peak, the target might have a yellow or purple haze around it making it harder to judge inches.

8. Glass and prism quality - a lot of the lower priced models use the same glass as their higher end cousins but it’s the glass that didn’t meet the QC standards for the “alpha” glass. Higher price usually means that the glass quality is better, more polished and differently coated.

9. Coatings - I’m sure everyone is familiar with the terms fully multi coated etc. Each company uses different coatings on different models (aside from SLC and EL to the best of my knowledge). These can also have a huge impact on the view. Some appear more neutral, more blue and more yellow. It depends on the coating for what colour of light it’s filtering. Flagship models from the big 3 are still an example of this. I prefer the neutral view, my brother prefers the contrast of a bluer view that appears brighter to him.

10. Apparent Brightness - hit a little on this in coatings but exit pupil isn’t the only determination in brightness. Coatings play a huge part also. More expensive models tend to have more elements which means further restriction for light. Better coatings and glass control that light to your pupils. Different filtering on coatings control contrast of an animal agains the background.


11. Low light performance - combine the last 2 points and you basically end up talking efficiency. How efficient is the light being transmitted to your eye. Any 10x42 has the same exit pupil of 4.2mm but not all are equal. Sometimes we are talking minutes of use but those minutes in the witching hours are most critical to how I find game.

12. Resolution - how well the binoculars allow you to view a clear and detailed image. Whether on a chart or in field use, how well can you or do you need to pick apart fine details. Also into low light - how far into dawn and dusk can you resolve those details.

13 . Useful FOV - often referred to as edge to edge clarity, how much of the actual field of view can you use. Here’s one are where you’re spending a lot for a little in performance but if you’re looking to be more effective logically the more useable image you have the the more efficient your glassing time is.


The SLC dominated the Japanese mad razor HD’s in each of these categories. When combined you’re getting a lot more for the jump from $999 to $1800

To touch on your original question a bit more paraphrased - will $2000 dollar binoculars make you a better hunter than $1000 binoculars. Not really.

You can experiment with different makes and models in the same price ranges and find something that works great. You can over come brightness and FOV by using an 8x42 or 10x50 model. You can see in the dark with an 8 x56

You can make some small sacrifices on resolution and clarity if you’re not planning to determine 1” here and there on a rack.

If you’re willing to sacrifice some compactness and weight you can get a similarity performing binocular for a lower price.

All in all - $1000 binoculars are a great investment and will cover you for decades in 95% of hunting situations.

I’ve learned through years of use that I prefer a neutral colour, high clarity and the best low light performance I can have. I want to use my glass for 7 days plus with no headaches or fatigue for hours a day. The only thing that has met my personal criteria is a flagship model from the big 3.

Completely individual choice, your eyes and style might dictate that a $1000 or less pair is adequate. I like to count nostril hairs on a bull or ram 2 miles out at midnight.
 
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RussGS

Lil-Rokslider
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Binos first, I completely agree. And Napper's breakdown above is spot on. There are so many little details that make alpha glass worth the money if you can swing it.

Since Jack O'Connor, experts have been saying binos are the most important piece of gear, and to buy the best binos you can. Even though the lower tiers have improved drastically in the last 10-15 years, I still think that holds true. Especially if you "like to count nostril hairs on a bull or ram 2 miles out at midnight." Awesome explanation.

Although everything I have stated above strongly promotes top end binos, if you do buy a lower or mid tier bino, the configuration matters a lot. An 8x42 will be more forgiving in a given binocular than a 10 or 12 power, given that the magnification will also magnify flaws or compromises in construction and components. Napper said in his first post the Viper in 8x or 10x only, and I can attest that when I switched to 12x vipers they were not as good a view as my 10x vipers were. I am thinking about selling them or trading them for 8x42 for my son.
 
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You’re going to know what you want more than me, but as others have more eloquently expressed, I’d venture to say that it’s money well spent going with the binoculars before a spotter. Keep what you have for your truck, and buy a set of quality 10x binoculars, as you’ll most likely use them more than a spotter. If budget constraints dictate, check for used or demo deals in the classifieds. A good tripod as you stated that you intended to get will make a big difference too. Good luck in the field, and the new job!
 
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Not much talk about Maven optics here. They are definitely worth a look.

Give those guys a call. They have some good options for trying their optics.


ClearCreek
 
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holzgene

holzgene

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So now my focus has turned to getting a good pair of binos. I eventually want to get some swaros, but not going to happen this year. I'm currently looking at Athlon Cronus, Maven C.1, and have heard some good things about Meoptas. Any insight on these? I hear a lot of good things about the C.1's, also hear a lot of good things about Athlon, just not their binos specifically.
 
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I think something people overlook - a lot - are that top tier bins from 10-15 years ago are still extremely good, and will check most all, if not all the boxes above.

A great example of this are Nikon's LX-L series. Top of the line glass from 15 years ago that produce exceptional image quality and are so easy on the eyes for long glassing sessions. The only reason I ever sold the pair I had was they lacked a 1/4x20 adapter option in the hinge. If they had that option, I would still be using them today.

Something else I've come to notice is that a lot of the new "HD" binoculars create eye strain for me that their older counterparts did not. Of the three pairs of bins I own right now, two are not HD and they are extremely easy on the eyes.

There are quite a few binoculars out there in the $500-600 range that were once top of the line and that still deliver the goods.
 

Napperm4

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So now my focus has turned to getting a good pair of binos. I eventually want to get some swaros, but not going to happen this year. I'm currently looking at Athlon Cronus, Maven C.1, and have heard some good things about Meoptas. Any insight on these? I hear a lot of good things about the C.1's, also hear a lot of good things about Athlon, just not their binos specifically.

Haven’t tried any Athlon Binos myself so can’t comment.

Maven C.1’s are a fantastic bang for the buck option which should cover most needs for anyone. They have a demo program where you can try before you buy, if you aren’t picky on colour you can purchase the demo pair at a discount.

Cameraland NY is a great site sponsor, a wealth of optics knowledge and an Athlon / Kowa / Meopta dealer. Kowa has some good options out there too. Give them (Doug or Joel) a call and they can help you hone in your choice. They offer a discount to rokslide members too. Im confident they’d also allow you to return something if you aren’t happy.

The key to finding the right pair is to try a few pairs out for a couple hours and see what you like best. View is obviously primary, see if you can get them outside on a cloudy / rainy / snowy day. Inclement weather is much like low light and where you will see a difference. Most look great under the neon lights of a store.

Next make sure they eyecups for you well, the binocs fit to your face and are comfortable in your hand.

For me, the a ability to attach a tripod or window mount is a key factor. Any binoculars performs better on a tripod.
 
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So now my focus has turned to getting a good pair of binos. I eventually want to get some swaros, but not going to happen this year. I'm currently looking at Athlon Cronus, Maven C.1, and have heard some good things about Meoptas. Any insight on these? I hear a lot of good things about the C.1's, also hear a lot of good things about Athlon, just not their binos specifically.
What's your drop-dead budget?
 
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I'd say right now, 1K

Get the C1s with an Athlon Ares spotter and you have two of the very best mid range options for like $800.

Upgrade whenever you’d like but I bet you never do. I like good glass as much as most but with those it’s hard to justify spending hundreds or thousands more for minimal gains.

The hundreds of animals per year that I spot don’t know I’m not using Swaro.
 
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holzgene

holzgene

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Get the C1s with an Athlon Ares spotter and you have two of the very best mid range options for like $800.

Upgrade whenever you’d like but I bet you never do. I like good glass as much as most but with those it’s hard to justify spending hundreds or thousands more for minimal gains.

The hundreds of animals per year that I spot don’t know I’m not using Swaro.
That sounds tempting...
 
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Get the C1s with an Athlon Ares spotter and you have two of the very best mid range options for like $800.

Upgrade whenever you’d like but I bet you never do. I like good glass as much as most but with those it’s hard to justify spending hundreds or thousands more for minimal gains.

The hundreds of animals per year that I spot don’t know I’m not using Swaro.

That big buck you didn’t see laying in the shadows is glad you not using swaros. I’m joking.
Getting out in the field and learning how to glass and find critters is far more important than what your Binos say on the outside. But sitting all day behind a set of ELs sure doesn’t get old.
 
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Maven B2 are pretty sweet. Through their demo program (might be tough to do this time of year) should fit your budget. I have a pair Maven C1 8x42 and they are a really good value as well.
 
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I see that Doug just put a pair of Leica Noctovid 8x42 on sale at 1900. Hey, it's only money, right? You wouldn't have to worry about getting alpha glass later. . .
 

Eastern Elk Pursuit

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As to the Athlon Cronus I was able to spend some serious time with them at Cameraland. Their customer service is awesome. Neil mounted a few binos for me on a VA5 Head and let me glass from outside the store. The Cronus is a very good binocular for the price. Not close to the meostar though. I noticed the rolling ball thing when panning. It did not bother me, but it was there . As Neil put it some people don't notice it at all, some notice it and it bothers them, and some notice and it doesn't bother them. I fall into the notice it, but doesn't bother me group. The new optika 6, which is less expensive than the Cronus, was, to my eyes, better. No rolling ball (no flied flattener) effect, and clearer edge to edge.
 
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Hard to beat alpha stuff but just stick to the rule of buying the best that YOU can afford. Binos first as everyone mentioned. Also don’t be afraid to gen an older pair of trinovids or el’s. Still really good glass.
 
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holzgene

holzgene

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Anyone have experience with the Nikon Monarch HG's? I've found some decent deals on these. Also for a tripod, I was looking at the Benro Slim Carbon Fiber...seems like a good back-country option.
 
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