Noob Optics Question

[holzgene]

I'm interviewing for some jobs in Montana, once I move, I plan on my first hunt being a spring bear hunt. Being a Midwesterner, I haven't relied on glassing...really ever. All I have is a cheap pair of Vortex Crossfires 8x42, which I have been pretty happy with. I'm planning on getting some new glass soon and I'm not sure if I should focus on getting a good mid-range spotting scope (Vortex Razor 16-48x65), or get a nicer pair of binos. I'm already planning on getting a good tripod. I guess my thoughts are, I might want a spotting scope for determining if a bear is a sow or boar. I understand for Elk all you need is a good pair of binos, unless you are hunting for a trophy class bull. I plan on updating my binos eventually anyways, but I'm planning for a wedding and won't be able to fit getting both in my budget this year.

 

[zeroforhire]

Binos first

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[holzgene]

Which binos do you prefer? I saw some Leica Trinovid 10x42s on the classifieds

 

[idahohikker]

Binos are first. A decent spotting scope or 15x binos is important also unless you can’t ever see for a couple miles with glassing and judging animals.

Two very highly reviewed mid range options that are surprisingly inexpensive for the value are the Maven C1 binos and Athlon Ares spotting scope. You’ll have to make a huge jump in cash for significant gains and you might never feel the need with the clarity of the glass.

Vortex is lagging behind these days. Maven, Athlon, Meopta deliver the value.

 

[longbarrel]

Get top quality optics (often called "alpha") instead of ones that leave you wondering if something might really be out there, or exactly what it is. Montana is big, and depending on the part of the state you are hunting, you may be able to see for miles.

 

[holzgene]

Binos are first. A decent spotting scope or 15x binos is important also unless you can’t ever see for a couple miles with glassing and judging animals.

Two very highly reviewed mid range options that are surprisingly inexpensive for the value are the Maven C1 binos and Athlon Ares spotting scope. You’ll have to make a huge jump in cash for significant gains and you might never feel the need with the clarity of the glass.

Vortex is lagging behind these days. Maven, Athlon, Meopta deliver the value.

Thanks for giving me those options, I'll definitely have to take a look at both. Also good to know about Vortex, that must be why I see their binos on the classifieds every day.

 

[holzgene]

longbarrel, are the companies that offer alpha glass swarvoski, zeiss, and leica?

 

[Napperm4]

longbarrel, are the companies that offer alpha glass swarvoski, zeiss, and leica?

Typically the big 3 are considered alpha glass. While I’m fortunate to own a lot of only alpha glass, it’s a luxury and not a necessity. I hunt a lot (90+ days per year) and have the time to be picky where alpha glass makes a difference between counting inches and is a worthwhile investment.

Binoculars are for finding game, spotters are for looking at game.

I would 100% invest in a new pair of binocs before a spotter because they’re that much more versatile.

I agree vortex is really lagging behind. You overpay for less performance to subsidize the warranty of every product they sell. Welcome to the business side of no fault guarantee.

Vipers (in 8 or 10 only) are ok binoculars but in that budget class you can do better with brands like maven, meopta, tract, kowa etc. All with a great warranty and much better performance that similar priced vortex.

Spend a little more than you’re comfortable with or try and get a flagship model from one of the brands mentioned. After that point you’re getting diminishing returns. (Spending the extra couple 1000 for alpha glass isn’t the same performance benefit as spending a couple 100 to step up from the lowest end vortex)

Spotting scopes are the same deal. Athalon and Vanguard offer some really good bang for the buck but aren’t necessary until you’re finding more game.

You’re on the right track with a good tripod and head. Mount some binoculars on there and you’ll see that you don’t need a spotter in most circumstances for deciding gender on most game

 

[longbarrel]

As Napper said, Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss are the traditional 3. But, not all their products are in their best category. Leica has ultravid, ultravid HD+ and noctovid in the "best" column, the last three iterations of their top-of-the line model. Similarly Swarovski has EL and SLC in the "best" column. The companies also offer less expensive models that are not quite as "alpha"--judge them for yourself. Then you have other companies such as Nikon and Meopta knocking on the door of the alpha room. Optical quality, ergonomics, and weight are all factors.


Unfortunately, some reviews focus on hunting with optics and saying "wow they are great." Fewer use optical details and results on resolution charts, but those things can be important both in trying to see an animal out there, and avoiding eye strain and headaches. I prefer reviews that go into the details and compare different brands thoroughly. S&S has some reviews in the archives that are quite good.

As a few reviews point out, two brands such as Leica and Swarovski can be virtually as good as each other in most or all categories, but each has its own "character" to the image such as color, contrast, and resolution in various amounts and types of light.

 

[realunlucky]

Rokslide has tons of the best optic reviews by experts that are very descriptive use the search function.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[dblb]

Subscribing to this thread.
I'm in a similar situation as the the OP. I appreciate the guys on here teaching guys like me about glass. I'm finding it difficult to spend 1000-2000 on a pair of binos when the quality or benefit is so subjective. I wish I could line them all up 30 min before dusk, have a few decoys set out at different distances and then pick what i like without brands or price. Instead it is just spend more and get more... I'm interested in value and not high dollars for incremental benefit.

Thanks guys.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[longbarrel]

If you read the better reviews, you will see that it is not subjective. Best optics enable you to see the animal in shadows at dusk or dawn, or bedded in a field of sage or under a tree a mile away. "Value" optics will tell you it is dark in the trees or that there is a lot of sage out there. I'm not trying to be difficult or elitist, I have used optics of various qualities and learned the hard way.

 

[longbarrel]

BTW, I don't know where you are, but come to Vegas for a vacation and I will let you look through several qualities of optics that I have bought over the years. Then, make up your own mind.

 

[dblb]

Wow sweet offer, careful I may take you up on that. I just need to cure my own ignorance when it comes to glass. Right now I'm looking at $800-1000 10x42s and so far the leupolds, zeiss conquest HDs and razors are what I have been able to look through albeit in a store with good lighting. To the point made earlier maybe i will just save up for swaros or leica so that I don't wonder what I am missing.

How much different are 1000 binos over 2000 binos?

Not trying to hijack, I just want to see this conversation keep going.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[longbarrel]

I already have Leupold BX4 Pro Guide binos in 10x32 and 12x50 which today go for $500-700 discounted. Thursday I pushed the button with Doug for Leica ultravid 10x42. A few weeks ago, I got a nice spot on the side of a mountain where I could see for 5-10 miles in three directions looking for antelope in central NV. My Vortex Razor 20-60x85 was good but the Leupolds were not quite enough for my eyes (admittedly not as good as a 20-year old's eyes).

 

[realunlucky]

Wow sweet offer, careful I may take you up on that. I just need to cure my own ignorance when it comes to glass. Right now I'm looking at $800-1000 10x42s and so far the leupolds, zeiss conquest HDs and razors are what I have been able to look through albeit in a store with good lighting. To the point made earlier maybe i will just save up for swaros or leica so that I don't wonder what I am missing.

How much different are 1000 binos over 2000 binos?

Not trying to hijack, I just want to see this conversation keep going.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

I have slc my hunting partner has newest razors. I can see deeper into shadows then him no question the Swarovski is the better optic. For him it's a cost vs performance or optics value he hunts mostly whitetails with one or two western trips a year and he feels the razors do everything well enough him. I glass lots of shit up for him he can usually see it after I him where it is. For me you can't kill it if you don't find it and that 5-10% improvement is huge. I could never go back to conquests or razors (had both) but I love looking over country and I'm lucky to get plenty of days in the field. So I justified them to myself as a value purchase.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[longbarrel]

When at a store in 1993 and deciding whether to spend the money on Leicas, I glassed under cars as far away as practical. See how much of the steering linkage, etc. is observable with different binos. Good lighting and large objects make it hard to see the differences. Go for distance, fine details, stuff in the shadow/almost dark. Leica won back then and I should not have been swayed by the overall advances in optics over the past 25 years to buy lesser stuff. Now, if you are hunting in the east and can only see maybe 100 yards away, it might not matter so much. I don't know as I have been hunting in the west, mostly Nevada.

If money matters (and it does to me too), look for specials and close-out prices on last year's model of alpha optics. For example, go to Doug's website and see that you can spend around 1450 to 3000 on larger Leica ultravids and noctovids, depending on whether you insist on the latest version, etc. Check eye relief and weight. I find the eye relief to be not enough on 10x32 Leicas while their weight is not much less than 10x42. OTOH, the 10x50 are quite heavy.

 

[Newtosavage]

longbarrel, are the companies that offer alpha glass swarvoski, zeiss, and leica?

Nikon also has alpha quality glass in their EDG line, but for some reason people are still stuck on the "big three" I guess because they are European.

 

[Newtosavage]

I have slc my hunting partner has newest razors. I can see deeper into shadows then him no question the Swarovski is the better optic. For him it's a cost vs performance or optics value he hunts mostly whitetails with one or two western trips a year and he feels the razors do everything well enough him. I glass lots of shit up for him he can usually see it after I him where it is. For me you can't kill it if you don't find it and that 5-10% improvement is huge. I could never go back to conquests or razors (had both) but I love looking over country and I'm lucky to get plenty of days in the field. So I justified them to myself as a value purchase.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

The question I have when I read your post was, if you two switched bins, would you still be finding the animals first? I suspect you would. Experience and good vision are maybe more important than glass.

But great optics are a very good investment. Unless you lose them or they are stolen, a good pair of bins can easily serve someone for 25+ years.

 

[longbarrel]

I agree. Alpha optics have gotten so good that the latest iterations from Leica and Swarovski are only very slightly better than their top offerings from 1-2 years ago, indiscernable to most. They can beat my 1993 Leicas but not by a lot. The newest and best will be hard pressed to get noticeably better in 25 years.