Non residents getting jammed?

[BeastOfTheTrees]

I have to laugh. We all know that forums bring light and publicity to our hunting spots. If you look, there are 3 threads that popped up after this one about "how can I hunt Arizona?"

I know right let’s laugh at others trying to figure out how to have adventures of their own.... how dare they I had it first..... those are my elk lol

 

[Beendare]

Could you expand on that? ....

Pretty simple...though it seems some still don't understand the difference between' guaranteed 'and 'random'.

The difference is guaranteed tags are halved....

Non res used to be guaranteed 10% of the tags......with res getting 90%

Now NonRes are only guaranteed 5%......

The rest of the tags go into the random draw along with residents who have a chance at 95% of these tags, non res are limited to 5%......but not guaranteed any of them.



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[bluetick78]

I know right let’s laugh at others trying to figure out how to have adventures of their own.... how dare they I had it first..... those are my elk lol

Easy there Hoss, I was pointing out the effect forums have on Western big game hunting, not mocking you or the people looking for information about their next grand adventure. I don't care if Arizona offers any tags to anyone ever. I've never hunted there and never plan to. Not even the 6 million YouTube hero's stalking miniature whitetails and palm sized birds has piqued my interest yet.

 

[dirtytough]

Pretty simple...though it seems some still don't understand the difference between' guaranteed 'and 'random'.

The difference is guaranteed tags are halved....

Non res used to be guaranteed 10% of the tags......with res getting 90%

Now NonRes are only guaranteed 5%......

The rest of the tags go into the random draw along with residents who have a chance at 95% of these tags, non res are limited to 5%......but not guaranteed any of them.



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Please show me where non res were guaranteed 10%. They never were. Prime example is antelope and sheep. Most of the non res tags are drawn in the random draw not the bonus pass.

Also when the system was first implemented in AZ there wasn’t a bonus pass. After a few years they added that. Maybe they should go back to the original system so someone just now entering the draw has a chance at all 10% not just 5%?

You must be a high point holder. I understand not liking the fact that they changed the draw. But let’s not make stuff up. It doesn’t do any good to spew bad info on the net.

Good luck in the draw maybe it’s your year.


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[juan trueno]

You can always move to a great hunting state, become a working, tax paying, contributing member of the local community....that is why I moved to Montana. I have a hard time having any pity of NR hunters.

Hahaha. I see you selling - scuse me “leasing” hints to them on a Georgia forum among others. They eat that shit up too, you can always sell a lease to a whitetail guy who knows nothing else.

 

[Billinsd]

You can always move to a great hunting state, become a working, tax paying, contributing member of the local community....that is why I moved to Montana. I have a hard time having any pity of NR hunters.

Save a place for me, Montana is on my short list of places to retire. We will have another home in another state for the winter, though.

 

[Beendare]

Look, I'm not trying to start an argument, just pointing out accurate info. Of course the AZ Residents are giddy as they have a shot at 95% of tags vs 90% in the old system.

Please show me where non res were guaranteed 10%......

It was a function of point buildup that non res were guaranteed the tags, We have decades of stats showing non res getting the 10%. Proven Fact.

This was supposedly the reason AZ changed the system....ALL of the non res tags were drawn in the first draw, ......none made it to the secondary random draw.

So now non res get the 5% of tags in first draw just like before, but in random draw, they 'maxed' it at 5% where anyone-res or non res can draw those 95% of the tags.

In actuality, it should work out to be OK for non res in the random draw getting that 5%- because there is so many non res applications overwhelming the res applicants, though of course changing the system totally screwed loyal non applicants.

Its a new system so we don't have a long track record yet to see how it shakes out.

 

[dirtytough]

Yea but like I mentioned to start out there was no set aside for 20% of tags to go to the top point holders. So early in the system AZ "screwed" over other applicants. And if a state does it once than don't be surprised or pissed if after the first change benefited you, the next one doesn't.

Have you seen any data yet to see if less non res tags are drawn now with the new system? I haven't seen anything one way or the other. Maybe we as non res should try to push for a 10% allocation instead of an up to 10%?

 

[Beendare]

Yea but like I mentioned to start out there was no set aside for 20% of tags to go to the top point holders. So early in the system AZ "screwed" over other applicants. And if a state does it once than don't be surprised or pissed if after the first change benefited you, the next one doesn't.

Have you seen any data yet to see if less non res tags are drawn now with the new system? I haven't seen anything one way or the other. Maybe we as non res should try to push for a 10% allocation instead of an up to 10%?

I only looked at the first year....results were pretty close to 5% of random tags going to residents....makes sense....so many non res apps.

RE lobbying AZGF for anything;
Good luck with that! I think its been proven by their actions where they stand in regards to non res.

As in anything that gets skewed so far in one direction............they could be leaving themselves open to a class action lawsuit. Personally, I would hate to see that as we all lose. That would be a bad deal...but we see it all the time in the US where "equality" is the desired result.

 

[wapitibob]

NR were never guaranteed any tags by regulation. Most hunts filled the 10% nr quota in the Bonus Pass because most hunts are top heavy with nr. After Amber split the 10% quota to no more than 5% in the Bonus Pass, most but not all hunts have still filled that 5%. If that 5% doesn't fill, he remainder drops to the 1-2 pass. If you have the point pools for Elk you can see residents are a cpl points below nr for most hunts. That disparity can do nothing but increase with time. Residents will cycle thru while those holding out for a top end hunt will ride the pine.
The new super point being discussed and probably implemented will give an advantage to those that pay attention but eventually everybody will buy it annually and we'll be back to where we are now.

 

[HuntHarder]

Class action lawsuit? LMFAO. No where in the regs does it or has it ever said that if you keep applying, you will eventually get a tag in the bonus point pass. Maybe Beendeer had max points and it affected him, if he did not have max points, his draw odds actually increased for many hunts that you were never even considered for before. All the tags used to go in the bonus point round, so putting in for archery bull in most quality units the non res quota was met in the bonus point pass, thus giving any non-res with less than bonus point pass points 0.0 chance of getting that tag. Now I have buddies from other states putting in for those hunts, knowing they atleast have a snow balls chance in hell shot at getting one. They used to have 0.0, now they atleast have a chance.

 

[BuzzH]

Class action lawsuit, good luck with that, its all been tried before.

 

[sneaky]

Easy there Hoss, I was pointing out the effect forums have on Western big game hunting, not mocking you or the people looking for information about their next grand adventure. I don't care if Arizona offers any tags to anyone ever. I've never hunted there and never plan to. Not even the 6 million YouTube hero's stalking miniature whitetails and palm sized birds has piqued my interest yet.

Palm sized birds? Tell me more lol

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[Bailer]

I only looked at the first year....results were pretty close to 5% of random tags going to residents....makes sense....so many non res apps.

RE lobbying AZGF for anything;
Good luck with that! I think its been proven by their actions where they stand in regards to non res.

As in anything that gets skewed so far in one direction............they could be leaving themselves open to a class action lawsuit. Personally, I would hate to see that as we all lose. That would be a bad deal...but we see it all the time in the US where "equality" is the desired result.

THe last attempt at a lawsuit, google “uso Montoya lawsuit” is the reason non residents have to buy a license just to get their points.

 

[Mark]

Class action lawsuit, good luck with that, its all been tried before.

George “Hef” Taulman of US Outfitters if I recall. He did the same thing in NV where his lawsuit was dismissed.

 

[LostArra]

FAIRNESS and elk tags??? That's about as funny as Buzz's usual "generosity" comments.


To edit: I don't disagree with Buzz's premise just the use of the word "generous" to describe any G&F department. Definition: happy and willing to give.
They SELL non-res tags at a premium price if they have a premium product (elk) to fund their operation while keeping residents and local politicians happy.

 

[bracer40]

A few months back, Rinella had the nearly retired head of Idaho’s F&G department on his podcast. They had a very thorough discussion on the impact of non-resident license fees. Sorry I don’t have the exact episode handy.

 

[DWBMontana]

Hahaha. I see you selling - scuse me “leasing” hints to them on a Georgia forum among others. They eat that shit up too, you can always sell a lease to a whitetail guy who knows nothing else.

Hahaha. I see you selling - scuse me “leasing” hints to them on a Georgia forum among others. They eat that shit up too, you can always sell a lease to a whitetail guy who knows nothing else.

I so have a lease in Montana I sublease to others....what does that have to do with my reply? At least post intelligently.

 

[juan trueno]

I so have a lease in Montana I sublease to others....what does that have to do with my reply? At least post intelligently.

In the context of your earlier post, saying you have no pity in nonresidents, you’re habit of crawling the web, finding poorly informed nonresidents, from far flung locations, and subletting your leases to them amuses me. It is apparent that you have no pity on the NR hunter, as evidenced by your behavior, which specifically targets the least informed/educated/experienced nonresident hunters, so I found it redundant but humorous when you stated you have no pity in NR hunters. Please forgive the lack of intelligence applied to my posting as you have noticed, I lack the native intelligence as well as the quality education of many of the more prominent, well written members of the forum, and my posts frequently reveal the deficiency.


I don’t have a problem with your operation PT. I like the circus

 

[DWBMontana]

In the context of your earlier post, saying you have no pity in nonresidents, you’re habit of crawling the web, finding poorly informed nonresidents, from far flung locations, and subletting your leases to them amuses me. It is apparent that you have no pity on the NR hunter, as evidenced by your behavior, which specifically targets the least informed/educated/experienced nonresident hunters, so I found it redundant but humorous when you stated you have no pity in NR hunters. Please forgive the lack of intelligence applied to my posting as you have noticed, I lack the native intelligence as well as the quality education of many of the more prominent, well written members of the forum, and my posts frequently reveal the deficiency.


I don’t have a problem with your operation PT. I like the circus[/QUOTE

You make a lot of assumptions. Most wrong. Just another example of not posting with knowledge, LOL. I only have one lease that I am sharing, It is awesome. My original post had to do with the cost of a NR tag, and what a person can do about it. Obviously it hit a nerve with you. How do you know I am not leasing to residents to? You do not. How do you know the NR that have joined me in the lease are not informed? You do not. I have a group that has been coming back for years bow hunting, they come back for a reason. You should really stick to stuff you have actual knowledge regarding, not things you do not have a clue.....