Nock kick up in flight and looping

[philcox]

I just started bare shaft Tuning, I have never done it before. I shot a fletched arrow at 40 yards, and followed it up with a bear shaft of the same weight, using tape on the backend. The bare shaft arrow did kind of a looping right to left, and hit about 2 feet low and to left of the fletched arrow. I am left-handed shooter. I then tried it again at a slightly closer distance and got a similar “loop”
But not as dramatic (low left by a foot). I then grabbed a couple more arrows, and strip the fletching’s off, and tried them at about 30 yards, with three arrows one arrow seem to go, OK, and the other two had the nock kick up in flight.

These erratic flight patterns are the bear shaft arrows, have me concerned. With a heavy front of send your arrow cause some of this abnormalities? I am running a 550 grain arrow, with about 275g up front.

I’m gonna go out and try it again in the next couple of days, see if I can duplicate it, but thought I’d ask in parallel.

 

[Garryett]

40 yards is a bit far for bare shaft I think. Could be a bunch of things. What’s your bow setup? Draw length and weight?

 

[Garryett]

Also what’s your arrow spine….

 

[wapitibob]

start at 5 yards and go back about 10 feet at a time

 

[philcox]

Shooting in Prime Nexus 2, 70#, drawl length is 28 1/2. HameskyTrinity hunter pro rest. Scott Legacy trigger release. Arrows are 28 1/2 inches bass pro black out X1 300 spine.

 

[Garryett]

Think it’s probably a distance thing bare shaft. But you could be under spined with all that weight up front. To be honest I don’t bare shaft tune. If it shoots a bullet through paper it good for me. My arrows are a lot lighter though… around 430 with an almost full length arrow due to my draw length.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Inconsistent bareshaft flight could be a sign of weak arrow spine (or inconsistent form).

To test for weak spine, reduce the amount of weight on the front of your arrow or reduce draw weight and see if bareshaft flight becomes more consistent. Spine charts/calculators aren't necessarily the be-all and end-all, but FWIW below is OT2Go/qSpine output for your bow (341 fps IBO, 70# DW, 28.5" DL, 32" ATA, 6" BH, 80% LO) with a 300 spine Gold Tip Hunter Pro (9.3 gpi) cut 28.5" carbon-to-carbon with 255 gr on the front and 30 gr on the back. A Bass Pro Blackout X1 is a rebranded GT Hunter Pro.


To test for inconsistent form, number your arrows and watch for patterns in where they hit. If #1 consistently hits low, #2 consistently hits dead on, #3 consistently hits right (for example), that would suggest you and your bow are consistent but your arrows are not. If this is the case, square both ends of each arrow then try nock tuning to get them all hitting the same spot. If there are no consistent patterns in each arrow's point of impact, either you or your bow (likely you) are the source of the inconsistency, and there's no point in attempting to tune until you can establish a repeatable baseline.

 

[Billy Goat]

Already said, but start out a lot closer.

With bareshafts you generally don't need much more than 20 yards, then just check your broadhead flight at distance. To shoot 40 with a bareshaft everything needs to be absolutely perfect, mostly you. I'd start around 10 yards, work to 20.


Likely weak on spine. If you are weak, you can probably just cut your shafts down and make it work, just depends on where you are comfortable with a broadhead being. However test it like Mighty Mouse said, I'd probably just back DW down, that will make the bow easier to shoot, might help with any form issues while working through stuff.

Yes, some Efoc stuff gets harder to tune.

 

[5MilesBack]

Yes, some Efoc stuff gets harder to tune.

For sure.

 

[philcox]

Inconsistent bareshaft flight could be a sign of weak arrow spine (or inconsistent form).

To test for weak spine, reduce the amount of weight on the front of your arrow or reduce draw weight and see if bareshaft flight becomes more consistent. Spine charts/calculators aren't necessarily the be-all and end-all, but FWIW below is OT2Go/qSpine output for your bow (341 fps IBO, 70# DW, 28.5" DL, 32" ATA, 6" BH, 80% LO) with a 300 spine Gold Tip Hunter Pro (9.3 gpi) cut 28.5" carbon-to-carbon with 255 gr on the front and 30 gr on the back. A Bass Pro Blackout X1 is a rebranded GT Hunter Pro.
View attachment 558027

To test for inconsistent form, number your arrows and watch for patterns in where they hit. If #1 consistently hits low, #2 consistently hits dead on, #3 consistently hits right (for example), that would suggest you and your bow are consistent but your arrows are not. If this is the case, square both ends of each arrow then try nock tuning to get them all hitting the same spot. If there are no consistent patterns in each arrow's point of impact, either you or your bow (likely you) are the source of the inconsistency, and there's no point in attempting to tune until you can establish a repeatable baseline.

Appreciate this info. I will try to drop arrow weight. The interesting thing, is that Archers Advantage gave me this for my current setup, after I had done all the input based on info in

but it is easy enough for me to get a few arrows from about 440 up through my current weight and see. I'll also start close. I have never bare shaft tuned before and did some "research" and I was under the impression that you could (should?) be able to shoot your bare shafts up to 70-80y and if tuned, no problems. While this may be theoretically true, it is not practically true for average joe archer like myself.

 

[LostArra]

Inconsistent bareshaft flight could be a sign of weak arrow spine (or inconsistent form).

To test for weak spine, reduce the amount of weight on the front of your arrow or reduce draw weight and see if bareshaft flight becomes more consistent. Spine charts/calculators aren't necessarily the be-all and end-all, but FWIW below is OT2Go/qSpine output for your bow (341 fps IBO, 70# DW, 28.5" DL, 32" ATA, 6" BH, 80% LO) with a 300 spine Gold Tip Hunter Pro (9.3 gpi) cut 28.5" carbon-to-carbon with 255 gr on the front and 30 gr on the back. A Bass Pro Blackout X1 is a rebranded GT Hunter Pro.
View attachment 558027

To test for inconsistent form, number your arrows and watch for patterns in where they hit. If #1 consistently hits low, #2 consistently hits dead on, #3 consistently hits right (for example), that would suggest you and your bow are consistent but your arrows are not. If this is the case, square both ends of each arrow then try nock tuning to get them all hitting the same spot. If there are no consistent patterns in each arrow's point of impact, either you or your bow (likely you) are the source of the inconsistency, and there's no point in attempting to tune until you can establish a repeatable baseline.

Great info. Thanks!

 

[sndmn11]

Instead of tape just leave the bases.


I think if you are seeing arrow flight there's a really good chance you are not executing a target focused follow through and instead changing your form so that you can watch the flight.

Shoot normal.
Start at 10 yards.
Ignore angle, flight, etc., and only care about the impact POINT of bare shafts versus fletched.

When you consistently put fletched and bare in a fist sized group, back up to 20. DO NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION to the angle of the bare shafts in the target or how you think they fly. You should only care about the holes they make in the target.

After you get 20yds squared away with bare shafts and fletched mixed in a fist sized group, you are done.

 

[Dennis]

As others have said you can decrease your draw weight to probably shoot your setup. If you want to shoot that tip weight you probably need to increase your arrow spine.

Provided your form is good and your bow is shooting down the center I would guess your arrow spine is weak. I start bare shaft testing at 7 yards with a bare shaft test kit (two spine weights and multi field tip weights). I shoot each spine shaft with multiple weight field tips looking for perfect bare shaft flight at 7 yards. Usually I will find several setups with perfect arrow flight to consider. With perfect bare shaft arrow flight fletched shafts and bare shafts should shoot to the same point at 40 - 50 yards minus some fletched shaft drag.

You are on the right track with your setup of 550 grains and high FOC.

PM me if you have additional questions

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Appreciate this info. I will try to drop arrow weight. The interesting thing, is that Archers Advantage gave me this for my current setup, after I had done all the input based on info in

but it is easy enough for me to get a few arrows from about 440 up through my current weight and see. I'll also start close. I have never bare shaft tuned before and did some "research" and I was under the impression that you could (should?) be able to shoot your bare shafts up to 70-80y and if tuned, no problems. While this may be theoretically true, it is not practically true for average joe archer like myself.
View attachment 558040

Those Archers Advantage numbers look fishy. Speed will be substantially higher than 240 fps shooting a 550 gr arrow out of your bow...should be around 265 fps. Maybe the IBO speed entered into AA is low, which would cause the dynamic spine calculation to come out stiffer than reality.

It's not impossible to get bareshafts hitting with fletched at 70-80 yds, but that's too far to be doing your tuning IMO. A very small imperfection in form/shot execution can cause a major POI difference at those distances. Start close and work your way back. I do my bareshaft tuning at 30 yds.

 

[MattB]

I think if you are seeing arrow flight there's a really good chance you are not executing a target focused follow through and instead changing your form so that you can watch the flight.

This

 

[Billy Goat]

@philcox , I'd adjust these...




You probably need 1" for overdraw, it's how far back the rest is from the throat of the grip.

Also, use loop instead of jaw release. If you are using a tied loop, the release type doesn't matter.


I'd then check your bow under setup, see what it's telling you for ibo speed. I generally plug in a fps, of course I have a chrono and know where a bow is, and where it will be as I add/subtract DL, or weight. The program can be off on your speed if you don't correct it. Only problem I really have with it, otherwise it's pretty damn handy.

 

[Marble]

Is there any extra weight at the back of the arrow like a lighted nock?

I would also check the timing. If you check all your specs and make sure that is OK, then you can move on to other things.

I had something similar and it ended up being my rest wasn't dropping all the way. The kick was inconsistent because it depended on where the vanes and shafts contacted the rest.


Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[philcox]

Same bow setup. I went down to a 444g arrow.

10y



15y


20y

 

[sndmn11]

20y
View attachment 558864

Raise rest and move it right. Raise it first and most.

 

[philcox]

Given many comments about form, I decided to switch back to my Hoyt PowerMax, which I shoot more consistently, but as you can tell, I’m not even super good at that. I made sure all of the arrow weights, now 530, were within the “optimum spine” calculation for Archers advantage. My power max is shooting at 69 pounds, same draw length.

The following images are at 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 yards. It appears that the bow and arrows are performing correctly, and properly set up, now it’s up to me to improve my form. Thanks for all of the input from this group, at least I know where the majority of the problem lies now … the archer!