No elk recovery, blame the broadhead?

[Eleven]

practice uphill and downhill shots with broadheads with a vital-sized target.

Uphill/downhill practice on 3d targets can be VERY enlightening, especially if you take the time to evaluate every shot afterwards for where it would truly hit in the anatomy (and not for what is shown as a 'score zone' on those targets). Generally speaking, I'd rather hit an animal a bit low than a bit high.

 

[Dennis]

My question is, What is the post shot sharpness of your broadhead ? Compared to pre-shot sharpness? That is provided you missed sand, rocks etc. which would rule out any conclusions. It might offer you some insight. Previously I never realized how much different the steel quality made in edge retention upon impact. I realized it with knives field dressing elk just never thought about it with broadheads until the last few years.

 

[Bump79]

2 blade and the the exit wound was the bottom of the chest due to angle of the shot. Sometimes stuff happens. It was enough for me to change broadheads to have bleeder blades.

100%. I can't wrap my head around the average 27.5"+ 60# draw being so concerned with penetration that you can't shoot a minimum of 1.5" cutting surface.

Pass throughs aren't the problem - generally shots too far back are (not in this case).

 

[Bump79]

My question is, What is the post shot sharpness of your broadhead ? Compared to pre-shot sharpness? That is provided you missed sand, rocks etc. which would rule out any conclusions. It might offer you some insight. Previously I never realized how much different the steel quality made in edge retention upon impact. I realized it with knives field dressing elk just never thought about it with broadheads until the last few years.

I don't fully buy into this. When boning out an entire elk with my old buck 420HC knife does very well until probably 3/4 of the way through, a touch up and it gets the job done. My S90V would probably do 2 full elk - it's impressive but though to sharpen. That is breaking down an entire elk - we're just asking a head to pass through one time. Literally poke through through hide twice, meat, ribs, maybe a scapula. Even my low grade broadheads are pretty sharp after pass throughs.

Toughness of the steel is much more important than edge retention. Edge retention is just icing on the cake. Toughness allows for steeper bevel angle and more cutting ability. Toughness is edge integrity (chipping, rolling, etc). A dull more acute bevel actually cuts better than more obtuse sharp bevel. Interesting read here:

Sharpness vs Cutting Ability - Knife Steel Nerds

Thanks to Matthew Berry for becoming a Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporter! CATRA, Sharpness, and Cutting Ability I got several good comments on the article about CATRA edge retention testing regarding sharpness and cutting ability. The edges tested with more acute angles (20° edge is more acute...

knifesteelnerds.com

 

[5MilesBack]

So what would you guys do?

I'd keep looking for him. If you haven't found him by day 3, glass for ravens and/or magpies, or lots of meat jays. They'll let you know where he is.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I think the trend toward smaller heads that fly well can potentially cause issues on fringe shots. Not sure the head but some of the newer heads are tiny. They say “total cut area with bleeder”, take out the bleeder and you’ve got a tiny 2 blade.

 

[87TT]

My question/comment is, what is plenty of time? and possibly bumped him..

 

[Tilzbow]

I’m of the opinion your shot wasn’t as good as you thought and the broadhead wasn’t the problem. A 66 yard shot makes it really difficult to tell exactly where that arrow hit. Add in the uphill angle and even if your shot hit the middle of the chest and not a few inches above centerline it’s likely you only hit the top of the lung facing you and shot over the offside lung entirely.

 

[S.Clancy]

My guess is you hit low. I hit a cow low last year, I thought I heart shot her. Turned out it was below vitals, I tracked that cow by blood for prob 400 yards, then it stopped. We ended up jumping her with a big group of elk that got the blood started again, but only a short distance. That cow went a long, long ways with other elk. Blood trails are generally about placement. Since you actually had a blood trail is what makes me think low. High shots very rarely have anything even decent for blood trails since you have to fill the cavity up.

 

[wildwilderness]

I also think you hit low. The red blood right away looks like muscle. I have seen elk hit low complete pass through and the blood looks like that (no recovery on that elk after miles chase and seeing it still going and bugling). At 66 yd the arrow with that much helical starts dropping fast. The shot may look 'good" but dives off the last few yards making you think it hit higher than it did.

 

[S.Clancy]

I also think you hit low. The red blood right away looks like muscle. I have seen elk hit low complete pass through and the blood looks like that (no recovery on that elk after miles chase and seeing it still going and bugling). At 66 yd the arrow with that much helical starts dropping fast. The shot may look 'good" but dives off the last few yards making you think it hit higher than it did.

Exactly. Low hit elk also seem like they are hurt and bleeding way more than they actually are.

 

[packer58]

Looking at your second to the last spot of blood, that's a pretty good spot of blood and also to the left of the main spot is another on the twig and ground. I'm not trying to call you out in any way but these conversations never talk about one's tracking abilities, some guys just track / find sign better than others. If you were marking all the sign as you went, that would give you a basic direction. You guys should have found more blood beyond the spot you pictured. Lost elk seem to be a reoccurring topic this year ...........

 

[Rob5589]

Keep looking. Uphill, 66yds, actively raking, the shot probably wasn't as good as you guys think.

 

[Smokin]

Toughness of the steel is much more important than edge retention. Edge retention is just icing on the cake. Toughness allows for steeper bevel angle and more cutting ability. Toughness is edge integrity (chipping, rolling, etc). A dull more acute bevel actually cuts better than more obtuse sharp bevel. Interesting read here:

Sharpness vs Cutting Ability - Knife Steel Nerds

Thanks to Matthew Berry for becoming a Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporter! CATRA, Sharpness, and Cutting Ability I got several good comments on the article about CATRA edge retention testing regarding sharpness and cutting ability. The edges tested with more acute angles (20° edge is more acute...

knifesteelnerds.com

Agreed that you need a tough broadhead. You don't want a blade breaking off because you hit a rib on entry. But, a dull broadhead blade won't cause the bleeding you want it to. A dull broadhead might push an artery out of the way instead of cutting it as they are very elastic and will move out of the way if the blade isn't sharp. Likely not an issue on a sharp broadhead on a single shot, but don't want new guys to read this and think it's ok to re-use a broahead (even a target one) without some considerable work.

I feel for the OP. As others have said, probably hit just a bit high or just a bit low but couldn't tell since it disappeared so fast. But elk are crazy tough. I've heard from a fairly reliable source of a guy that discovered a collappsed lung with a broadhead triangle in it that had healed over. Apparently the elk was running around for a year on a single lung. Seen video taken by game and fish in early spring of an elk walking around with an arrow still sticking out.

I shot a deer one time in the snow and from the first 20 yards of tracking I couldn't belive the deer wasn't already at my feet. The arrow stuck in the ground and there was a huge spray pattern of blood around it and you couldn't tell the type of arrow because it was solid red. Track was fine for 20 yards until she joined the front of her herd and they fouled up all the snow. But even crawling on hands and knees looking inside prints for the slightest hint of pink didn't turn up even the slightest clue. Can only assume the exit was low (shot from a stand) and closed up with fat and such in the brisket.

 

[sf jakey]

Quit looking at 2 am? Obviously he wasn’t hit well. You likely pushed a bull that may have bedded otherwise. I also think if you thought slightly uphill, he was more uphill than you thought, leaving a higher off side exit. My guess is one lung, and you pushed him out chasing his trail in the dark until 2 am. Not bashing you, just what my experience is.

 

[LostArra]

At 66 yards I doubt you knew exactly where you hit in the moment.

In a hunting situation (low light) with fast bows does anyone really know the point of impact especially on shots past about 35 yards?
Lighted nocks can be deceitful.

 

[BigCountry49]

May not be a popular opinion but this is why I like broad heads that leave big wound channels. I’ve never seen a pass-through with an expandable that kept me wondering, even with gut shots. Not saying the broadhead is to blame, but the wondering what happened thing just plain sucks.

 

[Damartin95]

Looking at your second to the last spot of blood, that's a pretty good spot of blood and also to the left of the main spot is another on the twig and ground. I'm not trying to call you out in any way but these conversations never talk about one's tracking abilities, some guys just track / find sign better than others. If you were marking all the sign as you went, that would give you a basic direction. You guys should have found more blood beyond the spot you pictured. Lost elk seem to be a reoccurring topic this year ...........

While I totally get what you're saying I don't think lack of tracking ability was the problem. Both my guide and I are pretty experienced trackers. The only reason we stayed on the trail aLong as we did was due to our tracking ability. We marked every sign and we went and used that to establish direction of travel. I found one spec( and I mean spec) 20 feet after that picture. I spent hours looking the next day almost an hour of which was spent on hands and knees in a fan pattern to find and indication of direction of travel after last blood. Based on a hoof mark, a scape, and a broken branch 90% sure of direction of travel after last blood but no more blood to be found.

 

[Damartin95]

May not be a popular opinion but this is why I like broad heads that leave big wound channels. I’ve never seen a pass-through with an expandable that kept me wondering, even with gut shots. Not saying the broadhead is to blame, but the wondering what happened thing just plain sucks.

I agree. Obviously my broadhead preformed well as a got a full pass through and head was still sharp. I guess what I mean as possibly "blame the broadhead" is that a different head may have yielded a better blood trail.

 

[Damartin95]

Quit looking at 2 am? Obviously he wasn’t hit well. You likely pushed a bull that may have bedded otherwise. I also think if you thought slightly uphill, he was more uphill than you thought, leaving a higher off side exit. My guess is one lung, and you pushed him out chasing his trail in the dark until 2 am. Not bashing you, just what my experience is.

That js Possible but when I say looking till 2 am that time was spent solely following the blood trail and looking for more blood at no point did we go more than 30 ft passed last blood that night. It wasn't till the next day I started grid pattern search best I could in super thick cover.