Nightforce Reticle: MOAR vs MIL-R

[Marble]

I’m in agreement with this statement. I really wish these scopes came only with windage holdovers (mil or moa) and not elevation holdovers.

I do like the MOAR reticle more. I guess my question is: if I’m not doing any sizing/ranging with the reticle, and I’m not spotting my shots for immediate correction at the range, as I giving up anything by going MOAR over MIL-R?

With today's range finders and some of the ballistics programs available built right in, I don't know why anyone would really need to use their reticle for measurements/range finding.

I guess if you miss and you can see the impact then that might be helpful. I just don't see it being very likely to need to do that.

I think in over 20 years of killing elk and mule deer, on the longer shots, I can only recall two times where the 2nd shot actually was the kill shot. Usually after the first shot all hell breaks loose and animals start to scatter.

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[atmat]

With today's range finders and some of the ballistics programs available built right in, I don't know why anyone would really need to use their reticle for measurements/range finding.

I guess if you miss and you can see the impact then that might be helpful. I just don't see it being very likely to need to do that.

I think in over 20 years of killing elk and mule deer, on the longer shots, I can only recall two times where the 2nd shot actually was the kill shot. Usually after the first shot all hell breaks loose and animals start to scatter.

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Yeah that’s my thinking too. I can see it being useful at the range or especially while zeroing. But even then, I don’t see it.

I may go MIL just for the fact that the industry leans that way now and “simpler” dialing numbers.

 

[wyo]

Both are just angular measurements and there are excellent shooters out there that use both so pick what makes the most sense to you and go for it.

As for me, I switched to MILs 5 of 6 years ago when I decided to get more serious about long range shooting. The smaller numbers (4.7mils vs. 16.8moa etc.) and the fact that adjustments are in 0.1 increments just makes processing the data from my rangefinder (or kestrel or phone app or whatever) easier and faster for me. Now the only rifles I have that are still MOA are of the set and forget heavy duplex variety.

 

[BjornF16]

With today's range finders and some of the ballistics programs available built right in, I don't know why anyone would really need to use their reticle for measurements/range finding.

I guess if you miss and you can see the impact then that might be helpful. I just don't see it being very likely to need to do that.

I think in over 20 years of killing elk and mule deer, on the longer shots, I can only recall two times where the 2nd shot actually was the kill shot. Usually after the first shot all hell breaks loose and animals start to scatter.

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In my experience shooting suppressed, all hell does NOT break out and critters typically look around wondering what happened.

Reticle then used to adjust fire if necessary

 

[atmat]

I've got an ATACR that has the inverted "T" scale. I literally never use it. Ever. Nightforce is living in the past with that scale.

This has been brought up before, and I wouldn't necessarily call it distracting, but it is obvious & noticeable. It's within a few mils of center, and I'd really start to question my eyesight or awareness if I didn't notice it. It's like saying you can't see the deer in the picture below

View attachment 482623

I agree. Visible and slightly distracting. I wish they updated their reticles and included some more hunting-oriented ones.

But that said, there’s not another 20oz bombproof scope of equal quality to contend with it. So maybe I’m just stuck with the reticle.

 

[atmat]

In my experience shooting suppressed, all hell does NOT break out and critters typically look around wondering what happened.

Reticle then used to adjust fire if necessary

But do you really use the reticle to adjust on live animals that may be moving and where you can’t see you bullet holes? With super lightweight rigs and weird shooting positions, I find it hard to spot my POI super well in the field.

 

[BjornF16]

But do you really use the reticle to adjust on live animals that may be moving and where you can’t see you bullet holes? With super lightweight rigs and weird shooting positions, I find it hard to spot my POI super well in the field.

You’re handcuffing yourself.

 

[Grownupcandy]

They're both good. I like the box in the center of the MOAR a little better, but only for very superficial reasons.

 

[30338]

I've got several with the inverted T off to the side. I literally never see it. I must have eyesight issues. Mine are all Mil-R. Seem to work fine for what I do.

 

[jzeblaz]

I prefer MOA myself. I learned that way and it makes sense to me. MOAR reticle looks good and makes sense. The Windplex from Leupold looks like what you'd want; Dial elevation and hold wind. I know Leupold aren't popular here, but I've never had any issues with any of mine (mostly VX-3s). I like SFP scopes. Plenty of options and SHOT show is just around the corner so who knows what will turn up. How long have you had the Barrett? Those seem to be MIA these days. Look damn fine, a fair price and LIGHT!

 

[Fishermen0105]

In my opinion you dont want a VX-5 on a Barrett, I've already tried that, they dont hold zero. We are 0-3 on VX-5's and I've sent over 10 VX3's back over the years. Now that I have reliable scopes it sure makes zeroing a rifle painless and you know the zero wont shift. You are on the right track with the Nightforce just learn to use the reticle and spot your shots. I have a SWFA 3-9 on a 30-06 Fieldcraft and thats a great option too but no illumination or parallax if thats important to you.

 

[atmat]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I’m done with rifle season and heading into muzzleloader, so I don’t need to purchase immediately. I may hold out until early 2023 to see if any new reticles/scopes come out that pique my interest; otherwise I’ll likely go MIL-R and hope for the best.

 

[Formidilosus]

With today's range finders and some of the ballistics programs available built right in, I don't know why anyone would really need to use their reticle for measurements/range finding.

Rangefinders couldn’t range past 30m in this last year. I used rapid ranging and my partner killed an elk at 408 and 270 something yards.

I guess if you miss and you can see the impact then that might be helpful. I just don't see it being very likely to need to do that. I think in over 20 years of killing elk and mule deer, on the longer shots, I can only recall two times where the 2nd shot actually was the kill shot. Usually after the first shot all hell breaks loose and animals start to scatter.

We shot 14 elk last year as an example. All but one got multiple shots because they were still standing. From 60’ish to 994 yards. It’s not just when you miss, it’s also when you hit the animal and use the first hit to make a better wind call for a follow up- and no, I’m not talking about wounding one with the first shot. First shot is center lungs, next shot is through the heart or scapula to stop the animal.

But do you really use the reticle to adjust on live animals that may be moving and where you can’t see you bullet holes? With super lightweight rigs and weird shooting positions, I find it hard to spot my POI super well in the field.

Are you your making a case for rifles and cartridges that are more shootable?

Your answer for weird positions and lightweight rigs is to stop using guns that recoil so much- I absolutely see my impacts and do adjust on animals. I mean in the last 30-40 elk I’ve seen killed only one ran on the first shot not allowing a second. 197 yards with a 223 and it nose planted 40 yards later. Elk don’t run when hit in my experience, or at least that is not the norm. They are not whitetails. 60 yards in the timber, maybe. But past 300’ish or so, they hunch up at the hit and at most slow walk- which is plenty of time to shoot again, and if one watched their impact through the scope then they know where to hold.

 

[Kurts86]

I have the MOAR version of that scope as I prefer the reticle over the Mil-R. If they offered Mil-C in the 2.5-10x42 I would have gone that route because I like the floating dot.

I’m indifferent to units MOA/MIL and will pick more based on reticle design.

 

[atmat]

Are you your making a case for rifles and cartridges that are more shootable?

Your answer for weird positions and lightweight rigs is to stop using guns that recoil so much- I absolutely see my impacts and do adjust on animals.

No, I’m not. Per the original message, this is a 6mm creed, so very little recoil. I also primarily hunt deer, who do not tend to stick around after a shot.

 

[parshal]

I originally started with the mil-r and swapped to the mil-xt (mil-c with a tree) when that came out. The subtensions are all .2 vs. the mil-r that has different tensions depending on where you're looking on the reticle. With the .2 on everything I no longer have to memorize the reticle. It's just much simpler.

 

[Formidilosus]

No, I’m not. Per the original message, this is a 6mm creed, so very little recoil. I also primarily hunt deer, who do not tend to stick around after a shot.

Ok, so you are not spotting your impact with a 6cm. What scope are you using currently on it that you can not spot your impacts, what ranges, what shooting positions, and what magnification are you using for those shots?

 

[atmat]

I originally started with the mil-r and swapped to the mil-xt (mil-c with a tree) when that came out. The subtensions are all .2 vs. the mil-r that has different tensions depending on where you're looking on the reticle. With the .2 on everything I no longer have to memorize the reticle. It's just much simpler.

I don’t believe this reticle is available at this time in the NXS 2.5-10.

 

[atmat]

Ok, so you are not spotting your impact with a 6cm. What scope are you using currently on it that you can not spot your impacts, what ranges, what shooting positions, and what magnification are you using for those shots?

That’s a lotta questions. I never said I couldn’t spot my impacts; I said I can’t do it super well in field situations (which is primarily deer) — or at least not well enough to start using subtensions for an immediate follow-up shot.

 

[Formidilosus]

That’s a lotta questions. I never said I couldn’t spot my impacts; I said I can’t do it super well in field situations (which is primarily deer) — or at least not well enough to start using subtensions for an immediate follow-up shot.

I’m not being a jerk. You should be able to slot your impacts with a 6cm, even a Fieldcraft (the combo does move more than ideal). If you are not, there are issues. If you answer the questions, then a better view of what those issues are and how to address them becomes visible.