Nightforce NX6 Lineup

[Dobermann]

NF would need to steal Swarovski or S&B’s coating recipes and they would be in good shape.

Or people could just by the Minox ZP5 and find out why others have said they're superior to NF ...

 

[Dobermann]

That's me. Not sure you're referring specifically to me, but that's absolutely me. You may not realize this but those long-range western scenarios also have animals moving at dawn and dusk. It ain't always midday shooting at an elk on snow.

Hi Chris, I don't think I've read your other posts on this issue (and haven't read the rest of this thread yet), but have you checked out the Maven ZP5 with THLR reticle? Form posted an eval and Q&A thread - lots of examples in there of the reticle in real-life conditions. To save cluttering this thread with unnecessary info, feel free to ask any questions in the ZP5 Q&A thread and I'm sure @Formidilosus, @mxgsfmdpx, myself, or Ryan will be happy to help.

 

[Dobermann]

It drove the hell out of Minox sales in the last couple of months, if @EuroOptic recent special shipment is any indicator.

That was probably a relatively small sample size. More telling would be the runs on SWFA and Maven RS1.2s ...

 

[Dobermann]

No excuses given, just a logical reasoning. Clearly Nightforce isn't hurting for $$. The guys at the top of most* companies care about 1 thing. $$

Yes ... and in the case of Nightforce, remember that their key markets are mil/LE, benchrest, ELR, and some LR comp - not hunting.

 

[RockAndSage]

That was probably a relatively small sample size. More telling would be the runs on SWFA and Maven RS1.2s ...

Perhaps, in terms of overall units sold. But from Minox's perspective, they may very well have 5x'd their quarterly sales of the ZP5 in the United States from this one sale. If not quite a bit more, given they basically don't market it here.

 

[Dobermann]

Perhaps, in terms of overall units sold. But from Minox's perspective, they may very well have 5x'd their quarterly sales of the ZP5 in the United States from this one sale. If not quite a bit more, given they basically don't market it here.

For sure: if EuroOptic's source had given them more ZP5 THLRs, they would have sold more.

But my point was that Minox's baseline was low to begin with, and the # offered by Euro was also low. Compare that with SWFA and Maven repeatedly selling out within hours of us posting here that they had restocked ...

 

[Dobermann]

If I wanted an xmas tree I would
Move to the North Pole and work for Santa

@Ryan Avery: can we have this on a t-shirt? Can we? Can we? Can we?

 

[Dobermann]

20 MIL grid....

Who designs these reticles?

Weeelll ... there is the NF>Horus>Todd H connection, so ...

 

[Dobermann]

It’s wild how many Random people refer to the drop test evals.

They're read by far more people than just regular Roksliders ... we know that from a range of industry sources.

 

[Dobermann]

I got into it with the engineers at a large optics company about how their most expensive scope couldn't hold zero for a car ride in a pelican case (guess who).

Vortex?

Leupold?

Vortex. No, Leupold.

Gah.

 

[Tl15]

Or people could just by the Minox ZP5 and find out why others have said they're superior to NF ...

Except they aren’t 30mm format, weigh 30 oz, and the reticles are more busy than a Midland dealer on payday. I’m sure they are great, and proven durable, but I’m not seeing what wishlist box they check?

Just call LOW up, have them take a 30mm NF chassis off the line, make it 3-18x50, optics of a Swaro Z8, convert a March DR-1F reticle to MOA and bump back the heavy stadia so I have 10 MOA of hash at max mag, plop it in then sell me 6 of them.

Hell, if Deon could dial back the mag and shrink down a wide angle Majesta optical system into a March-F chassis, they’d pretty much have it down.

You know, because the optical and mechanical engineering is just that easy…

 

[Dobermann]

Except they aren’t 30mm format, weigh 30 oz

Clearly. I was just responding to your point about optical clarity. Multiple people in the LR/PRS world commented on the better optics of the ZP5 to the ATACRs when they arrived in the US.

and the reticles are more busy than a Midland dealer on payday.

The benefits and usability of the THLR reticle - and that the extra information pretty much disappears in use - has been covered here.

I’m sure they are great, and proven durable, but I’m not seeing what wishlist box they check?

That's also pretty well covered in the ZP5 Q&A thread here. Specialised, sure, but an amazing dedicated LR option.

Just call LOW up, have them take a 30mm NF chassis off the line, make it 3-18x50, optics of a Swaro Z8, convert a March DR-1F reticle to MOA and bump back the heavy stadia so I have 10 MOA of hash at max mag, plop it in then sell me 6 of them.

Now you're getting closer to what the "RokScope" is doing ... although very few serious people want MOA these days, for good reason.

Hell, if Deon could dial back the mag and shrink down a wide angle Majesta optical system into a March-F chassis, they’d pretty much have it down.

Except they've had reliability issues ...

 

[M4Madness]

 

[bbckfh]

Now you're getting closer to what the "RokScope" is doing ... although very few serious people want MOA these days, for good reason.

I remain unconvinced of this statement. @Form has said this about their course too. But at the end of the day, they’re just differing scales of measurement for converting distance to angles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ddowning]

Vortex?

Leupold?

Vortex. No, Leupold.

Gah.

View attachment 1004466

It was not an MK8

 

[PlumberED]

I’ve always thought a 2–12 magnification range is just about perfect for a hunting rifle. For a while now, I’ve been looking for a replacement for the VX-6 2–12s I got rid of.

For me, weight isn’t the priority — durability is. Nightforce has always been known for building tanks, and usually that means a heavier scope. I was pleasantly surprised by the weight, but a little disappointed in the eye relief—I was hoping for 4 inches. The new NX6 looks like a solid hunting scope with workable —though not perfect—reticle choices. I’m looking forward to trying the 2-12 on my .35 Whelen (and probably a couple of my other hunting rifles too).

 

[Tl15]

Clearly. I was just responding to your point about optical clarity. Multiple people in the LR/PRS world commented on the better optics of the ZP5 to the ATACRs when they arrived in the US.



The benefits and usability of the THLR reticle - and that the extra information pretty much disappears in use - has been covered here.


That's also pretty well covered in the ZP5 Q&A thread here. Specialised, sure, but an amazing dedicated LR option.


Now you're getting closer to what the "RokScope" is doing ... although very few serious people want MOA these days, for good reason.


Except they've had reliability issues ...

Ok, that makes more sense. I thought you were putting forth the Minox as a good fit for what the NX6 should have been. I don’t doubt it’s great, it’s just very much a specialist like you said.

I think we agree that ATACR has been left behind in the optical performance category, but using its glass would be an easy button for NF, and corporate loves the easy button. If you had to go NF, that’s your realistic ask, hence the baby ATACR hope.

“Serious people” is a bit offensive to be honest. What exactly is a serious person and what is their fraction of gross profit for hunting optics? I like MOA because it’s what I know, so my ideal fits accordingly and my 400 and in opportunities don’t punish me at all for it. MOA is comfortable for arguably most of the American market and ignoring it would be a mistake in moving units to the masses. Take Leica, Swaro, and Zeiss’ recent conversion over to MOA in their new NA releases as proof. Moreover, the systems are not mutually exclusive. You can roll out models in both, just calibrated and geared differently, then everyone is happy.

I don’t disagree that March is no NF in run-over-it-with-a-truck durability, but they also cater to a much different crowd so I doubt that’s super high on the engineer’s list. Would be cool if they tried though.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I agree that the Mil-C works just fine in my experience. It also illuminates on low mag if you think you can’t see it well. If the Mil-C was in the 2-12, I’d be happy with it. Also, there’s an aversion to 2nd focal plane for some reason, but I have the 2.5-20 in SFP and enjoy it as well for even better reticle visibility.

I don’t prefer the tree on the FC-MRx reticle, but it seems to fit the bill otherwise. The reticle has a .2 mil center dot and .06 mil thick stadia. That’s 4x thicker center dot and 50% thicker stadia lines than in the 2.5-20 Mil-C. I imagine you’ll be able to use the reticle at low power without any issue. If it’s any thicker, you’d begin to lose precision in my opinion. Still, I likely won’t buy one because I don’t like the tree cluttering the sight picture.

exactly where I went, slow day at work, fired up excel, only have the hours on the dmx and all my old scopes to reference then all the review info I picked up on the other NF reticles and scopes and top choices the hunters recommend and started comparing all the stadia, dots, heavy bars and what they would cover at 600 etc.

was also hoping for dmx baby ATACR, my rifle light enough it could take another 3/4 lb lol, in that mil r being the most visible apparently and it was .05 on the stadia, then looked up the og fc-mil and it was 20% thicker on the stadia than the improved dmx (so .075 vs the .06), on the ATACR mil r the heavy bars only 0.5 mil....the dmx is 2 mil, etc. (did FC-Mil, DMX, MRX, Mil R from 4-16 atacr, green shading went into the winner boxes, red shading went into the loser boxes lol, there's a winner in there if you mash em altogether, and not a single mil-r attribute got a green box lol

now I want the ability to draft like the one guy here with the ones he designed awhile ago lol

I started mathing out stuff I knew from past that I could see without illumination and how much of a deer it will cover, thinking illumination as luxury not a necessity and won't argue how nice it is but you could easily go up to .1 mil stadia on the skinny stuff and the .2 mil center dot is great, not sure why the heavy posts couldn't go to 4 mil and the bottom one tuck right up, a 6 mil wind/elevation would be peachy but so would 3 or 4 mil for most (5-600 from mpbr), I would vote 6 mil for little extra visibility past 600, but I pretty much took everything from spread sheet, and created some blends lol, I know the dmx starts to get wonderful at 3x without illumination and handle majority of daytime inside 300 and realize the 4.25 mil donut is needed to make the red dot side of the lpvo through 1-2x but heavier posts on more mpvo starting point the donut could go away

like the fc-mil 5 mil wind side vs the 10 mil dmx, like it's heavier stadia, everyone seemed to hate the fc-mil super heavy 2 mil donut with half mil thick sections and the .35 mil center dot (main reason the dmx came along I suspect, 4.25 mil with .3 mil thick segments) and also like the no windage dots in the tree of the fc-mil but does have half mil stadia on tree plus a gap then the centreline running down through the numbers is 1.5 mil which wouldn't be hard to reference against from the half mil to the 1.5 mil mark but would be cool with bringing 3 mil of dots into it and have the numbers run down the 4 mil line, then illuminate the stadia like the new MRX did, I didn't mind the 1 and 2 mil over zero dots on the dmx but the mrx removed those dots if anyone noticed

I will prolly grab a 1-6 dmx to see if it swaps for my nx8 for better fitment on my current rifle only as my rifle a bit long on lop and the nx8 1-8 is stubby af so where I like it at 6x it's not at the hairy end of eye relief, the 1-6x comes longer in length plus longer in eye relief, what sucks for many about the 1-6 is with the German and sfp you could dial that sucker to 600, lean into the wind and be happy, but they didn't offer the new field set on the 1-6x prolly because it's pretty much all same body and controls as nx8 not the new nx6 hardware, could cut turrets etc. and when I was into dialling would be all over it and in the 2-12 also, so diallers likely gobble the shit out of that 4a-i in the 2-12x I would have, unit doesn't matter in this instance, maybe I still do and look into magnifiers for turret lol, I think the mrx gonna sell well also but they removed the German effect of the low mag by running that tree down to 20 mil, wtf was that?, so odd, I would still wish for illumination in the stadia of the dmx if wanted to tree in the last minutes of light though as the exit pupil at 6x starts to become the enemy of the dmx combined with losing the .06 mil stadia...so...

yeah I'm rambling, blending what they already have available into one

FC-Mil base - delete the donut and center dot.
Take only 1 thing from MR-X (the illum. stadia)
And take from DMX the .2 mil center dot, and the 2 dots above it at 1 & 2 mil, and the donut.

From there bitch and complain for years to get the following upgrades...
Ditch the donut only (keep 1 & 2 mil dots above the center dot, keep them non-illuminated)
Double the heavy bar thickness to 4 mil (go up to 3 mil minimum)
Stadia thickness at 0.1 mil
Square the heavy bars to same mil range east, west, AND south (5 mil German)
Reduce tree wind dots down to 2 mil and have the numbers run down the 3 mil line

And then throw it in a baby atacr 3-12x42

And then make a nx4 line up (with that reticle) that actually IS more catered to hunters and other 0-600 yard types, is lighter and more affordable at expense of the all out atacr glass but still 'NF' glass and maybe we'd be jumping up and down in excitement instead of fury?

and my rambling of course hunting only perspective, 0-600, coyote or bigger visibility and referencing improvements to minimum 30 minutes either side of the sun rise/set, cover 99+% of lighting without illumination, illumination as luxury only and I like that luxury! NF does lighting awesome, they were the first to make me like a battery in a scope, loved Trijicon fiber dots but not in a blind, most other dots astig like crazy for me so however they do their illumination is awesome, no flare, crisp edges, etc., brightness levels money, and I like that it centers you naturally behind scope as it's it goes away if your eye isn't square to the reticle, like an on off switch or a timberline no-peep or anchor sight if you're familiar with archery stuff for those who hate peeps (also me, no surprise)

Side prediction, the 1-6x 4a-i will find way onto a bunch of DG rifles. As I mathed what the reticle would cover at lower magnifications and thought well played NF especially with the 4" eye relief, almost exactly the market they were thinking with it.

So many posts, competition? 800? no, these guys need readers? the military guys old and going blind? do competitions shoot last 10 min of legal light? what do they win? meat in the freezer? anyway...just stirring the pot, engage if you want, everyone gets the point, here's what only a realistic hunter wants who sees where benefit of NF gear is, what ffp versatility could offer, what mil offers but zero other care but killing coyotes and bigger to where realistic even for the top few percenters. Work best at mag ranges, lighting, and distances where ratio is highest of said killing.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I do wonder why there isn't more discussion about visibility ratios of stadia or cross hairs against the game we chase, getting nerdy about how many inches of a deer can be covered to see it last light but still reference accurately enough. Without illumination required, I was pulling stats from old leupold reticles etc. Spend time with Trijicon 3-9x accupoints and recall the '0.4 moa' dot got a little big on deer after 425 yards etc. and reference against all these newer scopes and see what they would look like on deer at 600.

 

[nm.otter]

I like MOA because it’s what I know, so my ideal fits accordingly and my 400 and in opportunities don’t punish me at all for it. MOA is comfortable for arguably most of the American market

Revic offers a similar reticle design in MOA.

ignoring it would be a mistake in moving units to the masses.

This is not intended to be a mass market product.