New Year, New Scope?

[PanhandlePilgrim]

The current scope market has me (as well as many others) feeling like someone at a restaurant with too many options on the menu. I feel like there are several scopes out there in the $1500 range that look identical minus the sticker on the side of the tube and the reticle. I am sure they are all made by LOW including some of the German scope companies now offering more "budget friendly options."

All these scope manufacturers have one thing in common; they advertise features: the spinning rims and stereo over the mechanics of the internals. All of them that I have found at least. What makes a good scope be repeatable? Are there any resources out there that actually break this down?

I found the Dark lord of optics and found him to be a decent source of information, but he has been pushing Vortex pretty hard and I am skeptical. I really want to like the Razor LHT, but personal experiences with Vortex have left me hesitant. The recent test of said optic just confirms my skepticism. Sure, the warranty is great but it does me no good when the scope fails when I need it to perform.

I have referenced the Spreadsheet published on Sniper's hide from tracking tests in classes and that is great. I wish Frank would continue it, but I understand why he stopped. Just like everything else in this world it just takes a couple knuckle heads to ruin it for everyone.

Word of mouth seems to be the biggest resource for buying scopes and filtering through the fact vs. opinion vs. advertisement is difficult.

I am looking in to the $1500-$2000. I currently own a Mark 5 that is great other than it lost zero a couple times so i don't trust it. I own a Tract Toric 4-20 that has been good but the glass isn't, Schott glass be damned and I also don't want a PRS style reticle on my 6.5 PRC hunting rifle after running one for a year.

I know this is a topic that is getting beat to death. I'm trying to shift my focus on the why with optics over all the smoke and mirrors as there isn't a lot of info on the internals of different scopes and why they are (or arent't) reliable. I think if there was more about the internals in scopes to make an educated purchase over a $1000+ Hail Mary this process would be easier.

 

[FSB12B]

Just a thought, ever considered a 5-20 SWFA?

One thing I’ve always found with them, is they just flat out track. It’s a bit heavy, glass is decent, and they just work

Or you could Guinea pig an XTRIII for us?

 

[Dos XX]

Nightforce NXS?

 

[Bubblehide]

It's an aiming device, so don't get so hung up on glass.

 

[Dioni A]

I'm going through the same thing right now. I've become borderline paranoid about scopes losing zero or failing on a hunt. From everything I can gather the only scopes that are nearly foolproof are Nightforce, swfa some of the Bushnell's and a handful of the heavy tactical scopes. As much as I hate the thought of packing a super heavy scope I'm probably going to be getting a Nightforce or one of the older moa Bushnell elites. I'm just tired of playing musical scopes and still not trusting what I have. Features be damned.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

The current scope market has me (as well as many others) feeling like someone at a restaurant with too many options on the menu. I feel like there are several scopes out there in the $1500 range that look identical minus the sticker on the side of the tube and the reticle. I am sure they are all made by LOW including some of the German scope companies now offering more "budget friendly options."

All these scope manufacturers have one thing in common; they advertise features: the spinning rims and stereo over the mechanics of the internals. All of them that I have found at least. What makes a good scope be repeatable? Are there any resources out there that actually break this down?

I found the Dark lord of optics and found him to be a decent source of information, but he has been pushing Vortex pretty hard and I am skeptical. I really want to like the Razor LHT, but personal experiences with Vortex have left me hesitant. The recent test of said optic just confirms my skepticism. Sure, the warranty is great but it does me no good when the scope fails when I need it to perform.

I have referenced the Spreadsheet published on Sniper's hide from tracking tests in classes and that is great. I wish Frank would continue it, but I understand why he stopped. Just like everything else in this world it just takes a couple knuckle heads to ruin it for everyone.

Word of mouth seems to be the biggest resource for buying scopes and filtering through the fact vs. opinion vs. advertisement is difficult.

I am looking in to the $1500-$2000. I currently own a Mark 5 that is great other than it lost zero a couple times so i don't trust it. I own a Tract Toric 4-20 that has been good but the glass isn't, Schott glass be damned and I also don't want a PRS style reticle on my 6.5 PRC hunting rifle after running one for a year.

I know this is a topic that is getting beat to death. I'm trying to shift my focus on the why with optics over all the smoke and mirrors as there isn't a lot of info on the internals of different scopes and why they are (or arent't) reliable. I think if there was more about the internals in scopes to make an educated purchase over a $1000+ Hail Mary this process would be easier.

I'd like to hear more about your mk5 losing zero a couple times.
What exactly happened and how was it fixed?
You're the first guy I've heard from who's had that happen with a mk5, disturbing.

 

[Dioni A]

To get real experience, you need to go buy scopes, use them, and make up your mind for yourself. Unfortunately there’s way too much regurgitation of silliness.

Having spent tens of thousands of dollars trying out various scopes, I would caution anyone from putting too much stock in internet strangers and/or arbitrary/misleading “tests”.

With the exception of actually throwing the gun on the ground then testing poi and tracking most of the test don't proove much.

 

[PanhandlePilgrim]

I am not the first I have heard of unfortunately. Of course when you have a problem you start looking in to things. I never sent it back because it still tracks perfectly and i doubt leupold will look any further than that.
I'm not exactly sure what caused the loss in zero, its on a hunting rifle so it could be a multiple of things including bushplane rides and rough trips on a utv. But twice now it has been about minute high and 2 min left the first time and a min right the second. Everything on the rifle was checked. Everything was tight both times. I shoot a lot and have multiple rifles that I shoot right beside it that I haven't had this issue with.
As Dioni said, I too am a little paranoid and probably going to just pick up an NXS or NX8. Glass is not the end all be all, but you can't shoot what you can't see and for some scopes, last light is an issue.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I'd like to hear more about your mk5 losing zero a couple times.
What exactly happened and how was it fixed?
You're the first guy I've heard from who's had that happen with a mk5, disturbing.

I watched a video review from LRO last year when I was scope shopping. Their sample MK5 lost zero multiple times. I really like the features of the MK5 but I've had to much success with my NF and ZCO, I'll put up with weight and price but they're not for everyone.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I too am a little paranoid and probably going to just pick up an NXS or NX8. Glass is not the end all be all, but you can't shoot what you can't see and for some scopes, last light is an issue.

NX8 is reliable, but there's many compromises in its optical design that you should consider prior to purchase. I've been using NF for many years and I'm a big fan of almost everything they make except the NX8.

 

[PanhandlePilgrim]

I watched a video review from LRO last year when I was scope shopping. Their sample MK5 lost zero multiple times. I really like the features of the MK5 but I've had to much success with my NF and ZCO, I'll put up with weight and price but they're not for everyone.

I thought I was crazy or that maybe I was doing something wrong until I found a report of someone else having the same issue and then I saw that same video as well. When it lost zero a second time it confirmed my suspicion.
ZCO is a bit out of my comfort zone in the price category but weight is usually my last concern.

 

[WeiserBucks]

ZCO is a bit out of my comfort zone in the price category but weight is usually my last concern.

I'm not saying everyone needs to run out and dump the $$$$ on a ZCO, but I have learned this:

Cheap gear gets expensive in the long run.

 

[PanhandlePilgrim]

Just a thought, ever considered a 5-20 SWFA?

One thing I’ve always found with them, is they just flat out track. It’s a bit heavy, glass is decent, and they just work

Or you could Guinea pig an XTRIII for us?

I have not considered the SWFA. But I the XTR 3 is intriguing. I'll have to look in to them.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I thought I was crazy or that maybe I was doing something wrong until I found a report of someone else having the same issue and then I saw that same video as well. When it lost zero a second time it confirmed my suspicion.
ZCO is a bit out of my comfort zone in the price category but weight is usually my last concern.

Those guys on LRO are 100% not who I'd trust on any subject, I've read way too much bad and outright biased information on that site.
Not to say your mk5 didn't in fact lose zero but it's really hard to accept this as fact without a proper test/ mechanical inspection.
And from what I've experienced a scope that loses zero won't track reliably either.
I owned two and ran them hard for several years without a single hiccup, still your experience is concerning.

 

[JAM7]

The current scope market has me (as well as many others) feeling like someone at a restaurant with too many options on the menu. I feel like there are several scopes out there in the $1500 range that look identical minus the sticker on the side of the tube and the reticle. I am sure they are all made by LOW including some of the German scope companies now offering more "budget friendly options."

All these scope manufacturers have one thing in common; they advertise features: the spinning rims and stereo over the mechanics of the internals. All of them that I have found at least. What makes a good scope be repeatable? Are there any resources out there that actually break this down?

I found the Dark lord of optics and found him to be a decent source of information, but he has been pushing Vortex pretty hard and I am skeptical. I really want to like the Razor LHT, but personal experiences with Vortex have left me hesitant. The recent test of said optic just confirms my skepticism. Sure, the warranty is great but it does me no good when the scope fails when I need it to perform.

I have referenced the Spreadsheet published on Sniper's hide from tracking tests in classes and that is great. I wish Frank would continue it, but I understand why he stopped. Just like everything else in this world it just takes a couple knuckle heads to ruin it for everyone.

Word of mouth seems to be the biggest resource for buying scopes and filtering through the fact vs. opinion vs. advertisement is difficult.

I am looking in to the $1500-$2000. I currently own a Mark 5 that is great other than it lost zero a couple times so i don't trust it. I own a Tract Toric 4-20 that has been good but the glass isn't, Schott glass be damned and I also don't want a PRS style reticle on my 6.5 PRC hunting rifle after running one for a year.

I know this is a topic that is getting beat to death. I'm trying to shift my focus on the why with optics over all the smoke and mirrors as there isn't a lot of info on the internals of different scopes and why they are (or arent't) reliable. I think if there was more about the internals in scopes to make an educated purchase over a $1000+ Hail Mary this process would be easier.

Following this thread closely as I’m in a similar predicament. I just bought a Weatherby Mark V rifle in a .257 caliber and am in the market for a new scope to mount on the rifle. I couldn’t resist ordering the Vortex Razor LHT given the current deal posted in the Gear Deals forum, but the shipping backlog means I still have a few months to change my mind. The recent test thread didn’t make the decision any easier. I have a similar budget and am focused on weight and reliability, so would be interested in knowing what you decide to purchase.

 

[PanhandlePilgrim]

I am leaning heavily towards a nightforce or the Burris XTR 3. If an NXS was ffp I would probably have 3 of them. I have good eyes and seeing a reticle hasn't been an issue for me. I killed a bull at 30 yards in timber with my Mk 5 5-25x without issue. Knowing the subtensions are always the same is one less thing for me to worry about. So the NX8 is likely going to be my choice, I like the idea of the 2-20 but I'll need to look through one and form my own opinion on how good or bad they actually are. I'm about to close on a house otherwise I'd just go for an ATACR. My last resort will be giving in to a bushnell and learning MILs as they check all the boxes I am looking for except being MOA.

At this point I am going to see what shakes out after the SHOT show before I bust out the visa.
Opinions be damned on the Mark 5 I have had issues and may consider handing mine over to @ryanavery for one of these torture tests. Regardless I do believe that these tests will expose a lot of shortcomings and am excited to see what comes of it.

 

[FSB12B]

I am leaning heavily towards a nightforce or the Burris XTR 3. If an NXS was ffp I would probably have 3 of them. I have good eyes and seeing a reticle hasn't been an issue for me. I killed a bull at 30 yards in timber with my Mk 5 5-25x without issue. Knowing the subtensions are always the same is one less thing for me to worry about. So the NX8 is likely going to be my choice, I like the idea of the 2-20 but I'll need to look through one and form my own opinion on how good or bad they actually are. I'm about to close on a house otherwise I'd just go for an ATACR. My last resort will be giving in to a bushnell and learning MILs as they check all the boxes I am looking for except being MOA.

At this point I am going to see what shakes out after the SHOT show before I bust out the visa.
Opinions be damned on the Mark 5 I have had issues and may consider handing mine over to @ryanavery for one of these torture tests. Regardless I do believe that these tests will expose a lot of shortcomings and am excited to see what comes of it.

Sounds like you have it all worked out. Don’t put too much thought into Mils if that’s what’s holding you back from the Bushy. It’s not too difficult to get a handle on, and there are plenty of good articles/forums out there these days.

 

[PanhandlePilgrim]

Sounds like you have it all worked out. Don’t put too much thought into Mils if that’s what’s holding you back from the Bushy. It’s not too difficult to get a handle on, and there are plenty of good articles/forums out there these days.

I'm just a duck in the water. Haha. I generally beat things like this to death before I finally make a purchase. The Mil thing isn't that big of a deal either but i'd like to keep everything the same. That being said i think Midway had the DMR for sale last summer for like $600 and i wish i would have jumped on that.
The more I read in to the XTR III the more I like it. There's just not a lot of negative things out there and they have been out a couple years. As a bonus I like the idea of the write-on turret they're now offering. While this is geared for competition that could be a great tool for hunting as well.

 

[ETtikka]

I think you will find most of your answers on this forum, if not losing zero is a high priority then it sure seems the statistics favor a NF product based on the majority of real world review.

Not saying other brands won’t work just fine, but statistically, NF is gonna be hard to beat

 

[FSB12B]

I'm just a duck in the water. Haha. I generally beat things like this to death before I finally make a purchase. The Mil thing isn't that big of a deal either but i'd like to keep everything the same. That being said i think Midway had the DMR for sale last summer for like $600 and i wish i would have jumped on that.
The more I read in to the XTR III the more I like it. There's just not a lot of negative things out there and they have been out a couple years. As a bonus I like the idea of the write-on turret they're now offering. While this is geared for competition that could be a great tool for hunting as well.

Understandable. I’m OCD about everything matching myself lol.

That XTR III has been on my list for awhile, but it’ll be a hot minute before I can spring for one. If you get one, post up your impressions!