New to Quilts, need advice

[Poser]

I have a EE 20 degree quilt and have had it down into the low teens wearing only base layers and a merino beanie. I definitely had it over my head and cinched down tight, but I was good. I wouldn't say "toasty", but sufficiently warm. I could have put on a 2nd layer or my puffy if I had needed to.

 

[Take-a-knee]

I have a EE 20 degree quilt and have had it down into the low teens wearing only base layers and a merino beanie. I definitely had it over my head and cinched down tight, but I was good. I wouldn't say "toasty", but sufficiently warm.

That's how it starts. Your teeth chatter later

 

[5MilesBack]

I can remember many late season hunts with lows below zero, and I've never slept with anything on me other than my base layers and a fleece or wool hat (except for the sleeping bag). And my -30 rectangular bag has no hood. But I use my fleece hat while sleeping even in the middle of summer in the high country.

I picked up my first quilt for 2 reasons: One, because of the much lighter weight than a bag. And two, because the quilts DON'T have a hood like the mummy bags. I absolutely cannot stand anything completely around my head while sleeping or otherwise.

 

[luke moffat]

I've been using quilts, mostly in hammocks, for eight or so years. First was made from a Jardine kit. The Jack's R'Better Sierra Sniveler I own now is my fifth from JRB. I've played with beanies and balaclavas and then I bought a Down Hood from JRB and sewed omni tape (JRB sends it for free if you ask) to a Golite down vest. There is no comparison in warmth. The JRB guys say from their testing the down vest/hood combo is worth 12- 15F. That is based on their experience and that of their customers. I'd say that is pretty accurate.

Natick labs did a "brass-man" study of sleeping bag heat loss and concluded that an arctic weight bag (four plus inches thick) with an uncovered head would result in death in 3hrs at minus 40F. The lower the temp, the faster this can happen obviously. I won't buy any sort of garment for warmth that doesn't have a hood.

Have you ever slept, in the open, all night below minus 20F? No fire, no shelter.

HMMM, I simply asked which model quilt you slept in that you felt you needed a jacket with a pretty thick hood to stay warm, and now we are talking about -40 brass men and asking if I had slept all night below -20 without ever answering my original simple question? I was simply stating that I felt a beanie was all that was needed into the upper teens with my 20 degree quilt. You may get cold easier I realize and require a a jacket with a thick hood at below 40 degrees above but I thought that was a pretty large descripency in comfort which is why I was asking which make/model/temp rating quilt you had that left you needing a thick hood below 40 degrees.

But since you did ask me a question I will answer it. I have slept below 20 below 0 outside, but I have been lucky enough to be in some sort of shelter. Granted its been -30 inside the tent itself on occasion but no never been outiside. However I fail to see how this corresponds to my question at all when I was asking about temperatures 60+ degrees warmer than that.

If single digits and colder are expected I am leaving my quilts at home and taking a properly rated hooded bag anyways. So this talk about sleeping in much colder temps seems moot as I wouldn't even bring a quilt if I am expecting to sleep below zero temps. I know people do, but I like my bag when winter camping over a quilt.

I really enjoyed reading Ray J.'s book (not sure which one it was off the top of my head), and was cool seeing some of the stuff he pioneered. Again not questioning your extensive backyard testing in your hammock and quilts, just wondering which model quilt left you feeling the need for a thick hood instead of a simple being even above 30 degrees or warmer.

 

[Take-a-knee]

Quilts rock at 40, work quite well at 30 to 20F. Can be made to work at zero F, but increasingly less so if you don't have a plan to insulate your head. A beanie is a really piss-poor plan. I apologize for introducing science and physiology into a discussion of staying warm and not dying as it seems to offend you for some reason. I would start discussing alpha and beta receptors in the various great vessels of your body as to why insulating your head, with the same or higher R-factor as the rest of your body, is a smart plan, but I guess I'd be wasting my time. A two ounce hydrophobic down hood really is a waste of pack space and weight. Sorry for suggesting such.

I also apologize for not merely answering your question directly and for adding other information. I do tend to prattle, you'll have to forgive me.

We were required to sleep in the open twice each winter in temps of minus 20 or lower. IIRC, -34 was my record. We used to look forward to it as we actually got to sleep all night for a change. It builds confidence. You should give it a whirl. Try it with just a beanie.

 

[squeekieslayer]

I am not sure when this became a discussion about -40 degree temps. I started the thread with temps of 70s or 80s down to maybe 30ish. All of a sudden its a dick measuring contest about being able to sleep outside in -30 weather.

 

[luke moffat]

Quilts rock at 40, work quite well at 30 to 20F. Can be made to work at zero F, but increasingly less so if you don't have a plan to insulate your head. A beanie is a really piss-poor plan. I apologize for introducing science and physiology into a discussion of staying warm and not dying as it seems to offend you for some reason. I would start discussing alpha and beta receptors in the various great vessels of your body as to why insulating your head, with the same or higher R-factor as the rest of your body, is a smart plan, but I guess I'd be wasting my time. A two ounce hydrophobic down hood really is a waste of pack space and weight. Sorry for suggesting such.

I also apologize for not merely answering your question directly and for adding other information. I do tend to prattle, you'll have to forgive me.

We were required to sleep in the open twice each winter in temps of minus 20 or lower. IIRC, -34 was my record. We used to look forward to it as we actually got to sleep all night for a change. It builds confidence. You should give it a whirl. Try it with just a beanie.

So the model of quilt you got cold in with just a beanie at 40 degrees was?

And which hydrophobic down hoody and quilt were you using at -34?

 

[Ironman8]

All of a sudden its a dick measuring contest

I sense this happens alot with T-A-K

 

[Take-a-knee]

So the model of quilt you got cold in with just a beanie at 40 degrees was?

And which hydrophobic down hoody and quilt were you using at -34?

First off, I'm smart enough not to use a quilt below zero. I also never said I got cold at 40F with just a beanie, you did. I've used a "beanie" and the "hydrophobic down hood" with a variety of quilts, rated from 35F to 0F, with beanies/balaclavas, and with the "hydrophobic down hood", at a variety of temps, and confirmed for myself the hood is the "warmest" two ounces in mine, or anybody else's pack.

My sub-zero illustration was just that, an illustration. Try to sleep in low enough temps with no head insulation and you will either find someplace warmer or you won't see the sunrise.

I wonder why almost all of the cottage quilt makers also sell a down hood or balaclava? HMMMMM....

 

[bradb]

Why couldn't TAK stay on the 24hr fire. Luke maybe he will bring his kimber that didn't shoot over here........wait he sold it and it was a tack driver...and the list could go on

 

[Take-a-knee]

Why couldn't TAK stay on the 24hr fire. Luke maybe he will bring his kimber that didn't shoot over here........wait he sold it and it was a tack driver...and the list could go on

Someone brought up dicks..........

 

[Aron Snyder]

Take-a-knee,

I'll keep this short because I'm busy......

I've had several people PM me already about your behavior on Rokslide. I haven't had the time to look through all the threads that they've mentioned you on/about, but it sounds like you're a remark or two away from getting the boot.

While I'm sure everyone appreciates your service to this great country....you still need to be somewhat polite and not turn everything into a "who's tougher than who weenis measuring contest"!

As I've mentioned already, I haven't looked at all the threads, but again, try and be nice, civil and helpful with any post you make.

Thank you for the understanding and good luck this season!

 

[cody covey]

man i bet those hoods also make good shit pots when its too cold to get out of your down quilt. Do they come stock with a pocket for TP?

 

[bradb]

Good Aron post and I shouldn't have posted as I did

 

[Take-a-knee]

man i bet those hoods also make good shit pots when its too cold to get out of your down quilt. Do they come stock with a pocket for TP?

Dazzling observation! I'll email Nunatak forthwith and give you 100% credit for the idea.

 

[luke moffat]

First off, I'm smart enough not to use a quilt below zero.

Then why bring up sleeping in super cold temps like -30 and colder in a thread the OP was asking about temperatures nearly 60 degrees warmer. Obviously different equipment would be used in such a case.

I was merely trying to keep the topic on point (sleeping at 20-40 degrees like the OP asked) rather than derail it. A down hoody is a nice concept for sure and I know folks that use them. But for me when it gets cold enough to swap over from a beanie to a down hoody then I am swapping from a quilt to a bag at that point as well. As a beanie I can hike just fine in at or below zero and a down hoody I don't. We all approach gear different based on our experiences and granted I haven't had as much experience as you obviously and likely never will, I am just basing it simply on my extreme limited knowledge based on what I do given my gear need given expected temps. To each their own. I know I'm all wrong in this obviously and you want to talk more and alpha, beta, and gamma rays , but I simply won't go there in this thread. If you would like to talk about such things, why don't you start a new thread as I have no doubt some will find it insightful.

 

[Take-a-knee]

Then why bring up sleeping in super cold temps like -30 and colder in a thread the OP was asking about temperatures nearly 60 degrees warmer. Obviously different equipment would be used in such a case.

I was merely trying to keep the topic on point (sleeping at 20-40 degrees like the OP asked) rather than derail it.

I was merely making the point, which you obviously have yet to grasp, that as the temps drop, more/better insulation on your head becomes not just a good idea any longer but truly a matter of survival. Having a hooded vest/jacket as part of your kit adds a ton of multi-use versatility to your sleep and operating systems. Having said items on your person, (the HOOD especially) if for whatever reason you couldn't make it back to your bag/shelter, could be the difference between a 96 core temp at sunrise (this would really suck) and an 86F core temp (this did suck but not any longer).

So if your gonna carry it anyway, why not incorporate it into your sleeping system, from 20-40F low temps, this is an optimal solution, IMO.

You really should reread that book you have from Jardine. All the best to you.

 

[tipsntails7]

Im not even sure what's happening anymore.... I'm not wearing a down hood and jacket at 40 degrees when using a 20 degree quilt, and I wouldn't use a quilt below zero. Basically nothing else matters.

That's about all I've got from this thread.

 

[dotman]

I've been using quilts, mostly in hammocks, for eight or so years. First was made from a Jardine kit. The Jack's R'Better Sierra Sniveler I own now is my fifth from JRB. I've played with beanies and balaclavas and then I bought a Down Hood from JRB and sewed omni tape (JRB sends it for free if you ask) to a Golite down vest. There is no comparison in warmth. The JRB guys say from their testing the down vest/hood combo is worth 12- 15F. That is based on their experience and that of their customers. I'd say that is pretty accurate.

Natick labs did a "brass-man" study of sleeping bag heat loss and concluded that an arctic weight bag (four plus inches thick) with an uncovered head would result in death in 3hrs at minus 40F. The lower the temp, the faster this can happen obviously. I won't buy any sort of garment for warmth that doesn't have a hood.

Have you ever slept, in the open, all night below minus 20F? No fire, no shelter.

I haven't slept at minus 20 but I have slept down in the low teens with my EE 0* without needing a hood or jacket.

 

[dotman]

Wow just read the remaining posts and someone in this thread is batshit crazy, not gonna name names or anything.