New to muzzleloading. Lots of questions

[MikeA171]

I just purchased a 50 cal Knight Ultra-Lite with full plastic jacket for my first muzzleloader based off recommendations from people on here and a bit of research. Being new to the game, I have a few questions. What powder and primers do you all recommend? Can I use BH209 powder with this muzzleloader? I know it's a bit pricey but I like the idea of minimal cleaning compared to other options, especially since this rifle is a PITA to clean as others have pointed out. I purchased some Barnes Spitfire TMZ 290 grain sabot bullets and some Hornady SST 300 grain sabot bullets to try. I plan on using this for elk hunting. Has anyone had success with these or better success with something else? And how much powder do I want to use? Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

First thing to check and report back is what's a legal combo in the state where you have your tag, because every state has different projectile, ignition, and powder requirements.

 

[atmat]

First thing to check and report back is what's a legal combo in the state where you have your tag, because every state has different projectile, ignition, and powder requirements.

^^ this all the way.

Can I use BH209 powder with this muzzleloader? I know it's a bit pricey but I like the idea of minimal cleaning compared to other options

Just to help temper expectations a bit: using BH209 doesn’t get you to “minimal cleaning.” Muzzies still require quite a bit of cleaning over centerfire rifles. With 209 over standard replacement powders, you’re just getting quite a few more shots between cleanings. But either way, any serious range time is going to have you using that rod and burning through patches. I still think BH209 is the best powder available, and use it myself.

 

[MikeA171]

First thing to check and report back is what's a legal combo in the state where you have your tag, because every state has different projectile, ignition, and powder requirements.

Sorry. I should've started with that. I'll be hunting for elk in western Washington. Here's some info that I found.

FOR A MUZZLELOADER TO BE LEGAL IN WASHINGTON IT MUST:​

• Only be loaded from the muzzle
• Must use black powder or a black powder substitute
• Must have a single or double barrel that is either rifled or smooth bore
• Must be .40 caliber or larger for deer and .45 or larger for all other big game. #1 buckshot may be used for deer in muzzleloaders .60 caliber or larger
• Have an ignition source that is either wheellock, flintlock, matchlock, or percussion (primers designed to be used in modern cartridges are legal)
• Have open, peep, or other open sight designs. Fiber optic open sights are legal. Telescopic sights or sights containing glass are prohibited
• Not have any electronic devices attached to the muzzleloader

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I have a Knight DISC Extreme .50cal that I use in WA. Love it, highly recommend. Have a williams adjustable peep and firesight for sights. Shooting powerbelt 338gr platinums and 100gr of white hot pellets.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

based on that wording, looks like you're good to go with 209 primers and BH 209. I thought WA had more restrictive requirements, maybe they changed them.

 

[atmat]

based on that wording, looks like you're good to go with 209 primers and BH 209. I thought WA had more restrictive requirements, maybe they changed them.

They used to require ignition be open to elements.

 

[Novashooter]

If legal, the bare 209 primer conversion is well worth it. I have the plastic jacket 209 primer setup for my Knight TK2000, but I don't use it anymore. The plastic jackets are fine, and they are cheap and can be reused plenty, but it's still another thing you need which has no real benefits. If it is more waterproof, I sure can't tell. I actually prefer percussion caps most of the time, they tend to shoot better with black powder, and they are easier to handle in a capper.

I've shot quite a bit of BH209 powder back when it was $30 for 10 ounces, and it wasn't even that long ago. Today at $80 for 8 ounces, man. It's worth a try, but don't marry yourself to it. Buy one bottle and try it, it's always good to experiment. You can get plenty of info on the two other biggest name substitutes 777 and Pyrodex. Don't discount real blackpowder Like Swiss or hopefully Goex comes back with their Olde Eynsford either. If you can find it, the stuff can be really accurate, and the reliability is unmatched.

Speaking for BH209 specifically, there's only two primers that have been recommended for it, and thats the Federal 209A and the CCI 209M (NOT the regular CCI 209, which is far too weak). I have heard of people getting good results with Winchester 209's, but I'm not sure I'd bother to try them. You are going to have a hard time finding any of those primers. Muzzleloader specific 209's will not work. Cheddite and Rio 209's can be had, but they are probably too weak for this. Some of this has to do with what you are shooting. If you are shooting a heavy, say 400+ grain bullet that also has a good seal, then you can probably get away with a weaker primer. My advice is to just find some Federal 209A or CCI 209M, they are the best ones you can use. Watch Ballistic Products, they sometimes have pulldown Federal 209A's, but they go quick.

BH209 I've found needs a good seal. It's essentially a smokeless powder, so it needs to build pressure before it really ignites. Mostly this is a nonissue, but where you can run into issues is if you are shooting a full bore conical like a Maxiball, or a No Excuses bore size bullet. Those bullets are not sealing all the way to the groove diameter, so they need to bump up during firing. The fix for that is easy, and it's usually a good practice with any powder, is to use wadding. Generally 1/8" or 1/4" thick felt wads are plenty to to the job. Max loads of BH209 depend on the rifle, but generally 120 gr by VOLUME is considered maximum with most bullets, and most 50 caliber rifles. A lot of people end up weighing their charges of BH209 for maximum accuracy, so be aware that BH209, as well as every other substitute powder is listed by VOLUME only. It appears the BH209 can vary in actual weight by quite a bit lot to lot, so I'm not sure what the maximum charge by weight would be. Just use a 120 gr volume measure, and weigh that. Generally I found my best accuracy in the 75 to 100 gr volume range. 120gr volume of BH209 is pretty dang hot. You will find that velocities with BH209 are usually higher than expected.

When it comes to bore care, BH209 doesn't seem to clean well with water like blackpowder or other substitutes. Instead a bore cleaner solvent is needed, I found Hoppes #9 did fine for me. The breech plug can clog up with gunk, but I'm not sure if it's any worse than 777. All you need is a drill bit the same size as the flash channel, the large diameter, not the tiny little hole. It's like 1/8" or similar. Just run that bit in there with your fingers and it cleans that crust out in no time. Inside the bore I think most people just shoot and are fine. I like to swab between shots. If you run a patch, I would either leave it dry, or use alcohol. I did not have much luck with spit with BH209. A single patch is usually fine, BH209 fouling is not bad at all. Once you are done shooting, I found best results as said with a bore solvent like Hoppes #9 and a brass bore brush. I cleaned just like a centerfire rifle. Which reminds me, you will probably want a range rod, I'll get to that next. When it comes to hunting, one benefit to BH209 is you could hunt with a fouled bore if you plan it right. It really depends how humid your environment is, but I feel you should be fine with a fouled bore and BH209 for a week. I wouldn't push it to a month, that's asking for rust. It's "non-corrosive" powder, but it's really less corrosive. The fouling itself, both from the powder and primer, is still there, and it can absorb moisture from the air.

Now as for some general muzzleloader shooting tips, the #1 thing is you will want a range rod. The ramrod on your rifle is fine for loading a shot in the field, but it's not the nicest to use. The very best one I've found is the steel ones from Track of the Wolf. I'll put a link to the 29" one below, which should work fine for most inline rifles. There isn't much for 30"+ barrels until you are looking at traditional muzzleloaders. They make those rods up to 44" if you want them. These rods are rock solid, the bore guide is very nice for preserving the muzzle. They make loading very tight fitting bullets a breeze. I use mine for cleaning too, but if you want a second rod for cleaning, TOTW also sells Delrin rods which work perfect for that. Delrin is some kind of plastic. I absolutely HATE them for ramrods, but they are perfect cleaning rods. You can get all the jags and stuff you want from TOTW too. If you are going to shoot mostly pointed bullets, you will want to pick up a loading tip made for them. I'm not a fan of those universal tips, they don't do anything great. I like the TOTW jags for loading round ball and other blunt bullets. I think Spinjag is a big name people use for pointed bullets. You can buy cleaning patches, but I find old T shirts work even better. Lastly, you will want a decent short starter. Some bullets load fine with no starter at all. Some, especially plastic sabot bullets are extremely hard to start. Don't get a plastic one, they are knuckle busters. You will probably want one with removable tips so you can screw in your own loading tips. It's too bad Thompson Center is out of buisness, they used to make a really nice aluminum one. A quick search shows Knight makes one that should work perfect for you.

Our Strongest Loading & Cleaning Rod, 5/16" stainless, over 29" long for Lyman Trade Rifle or T/C Hawken, rigid handle, 10-32 thread - Track of the Wolf

Totw.Structures.Web.Parts.DescriptionDetail

www.trackofthewolf.com

 

[Novashooter]

I forgot to touch on bullets. No matter the bullet, fit is important. With plastic sabot's you will find some that practically slip fit, and some that you are unsure if you will be able to ram them all the way down. This is less dramatic with a good range rod, but it still matters. Especially with a plastic sabot, you need a good snug fit, really the tighter the better or you wont get accuracy. A good way to do this is pick a bullet, and try different sabots. Some of my favorites were from Harvester, but MMP makes good ones too. The Harvester crush rib is popular. You can even try different calibers. Not too many like 44 caliber bullets in a 50 caliber rifle, but 475's in a 50 I've heard claimed is even more accurate than 45's. As for specific bullets to try, I can't really help. My opinion is to not get too complex. You already have diameter and speed on your side. Using giant hollow point pistol bullets is not going to help. I'd rather just shoot a big hunk of lead. I've shot cast bullets with them with great results. I would lean to a jacketed soft point or a cast flat nose myself. Nothing wrong with an SST though. They generally do fine.

The other common option is full bore conical bullets. There are various kinds, but today a lot of people use bore sized lead bullets. The most common brand I see is No Excuses, and they produce a good bullet. You want these just over your bore diameter so they are a slip fit. These can load very easy, you just want them tight enough they wont fall out. You can get these in different sizes. Being a Knight, your bore should be very close to smack on .500". A .502" bullet should be a good one for you. Use a 1/8" or 1/4" thick felt wad under the bullet as a seal. A 1/2" punch works, but even a 9/16" wad loads easy in a 50 caliber, and may fit better. A little different is a TC maxiball. These are a little blunt, so might be lacking if you are looking to stretch all the way out to that 200 yard mark, but inside 150 yards there's not much better. They generally shoot really good. These style bullets can differ, they were made by TC over many decades, and they had different versions of them. I would say the "classic" 50 caliber maxiball is the 370 grain, the bottom two bands are about bore size, but the top band is oversized. This means they slide right in the muzzle to the top band, then need either a good thumb, or a quick pop with a short starter to get them engraved to the rifling. I've also ran these through a bullet sizer to make them entirely bore sized conical with good results. If you are putting in an order to Track of the Wolf, I highly recommend you buy a pack of their hand cast Maxiballs. Many people lube the whole thing, but I like to lube only the small bottom groove. You don't need anything fancy, even plain old Crisco works fine, just dab it in there with your fingers. Use a felt wad under these bullets too.

One more quick tip, I believe in "ram the powder, not the lead". You can't really compress Blackhorn 209 powder, but most other substitutes, and real black powder perform best compressed slightly. If you are using a cast lead bullet you can easily deform them if you ram them hard. When loading with felt wads I like to ram the wad down first, and compress the powder slightly, you will get the feel. Then follow with the bullet and just go until it touches, no more. It is important to mark the ramrod, sharpie works fine for testing purposes. You will hear horror stories of any air gap causing the earth to explode, and it's not really a concern. I think a short started bullet, meaning you only used a short starter where the bullet is only maybe 4" down the barrel, that might cause an issue. I've never seen any solid proof of it, and it's not been replicated in testing, but there are stories. For sure if you ram a wad down, then only short start a bullet, you will bulge your barrel at the end, it's a barrel obstruction. But the idea that if you leave a small say 1/4" or 1/2" air gap between the powder and bullet, no that won't cause any harm. It does cause accuracy to fall right off the map a lot of times though. For this reason I definitely suggest you mark your rod. What can happen is if you get fouling in your bore, it's going to be worse at the breech end. As it builds up you can think your are seating your bullet full, but you aren't really, you are just hitting that fouling. Sometimes it's called a crud ring. This is fixed by swabbing your barrel.

 

[Snyder6353]

First thing to check and report back is what's a legal combo in the state where you have your tag, because every state has different projectile, ignition, and powder requirements.

Ooofff, I couldn't imagine having an awesome day turn into a fine from a primer lol

 

[Hamburger]

I switched to BH209 after having multiple shooters and muzzleloaders at the range. I was cleaning more than shooting.

There is some load data online for weight and volume using different bullets provided by blackhorn. “Blackhorn load data”

I also upgrade the sights to a ghost rear and hooded front sight by Williams. Very handy for states with no optics regulations.