New Study Shows 9.52 Million Acres of Western Public Lands Are Landlocked

[wapitibob]

Corner crossing is not illegal in Wyoming.

 

[Ranger185]

Do you only hunt WY wapitibob?

 

[Trial153]

I have had ranch owers include land locked blm land in acreage totals when speaking the ranch. Defacto ownership

 

[wapitibob]

Do you only hunt WY wapitibob?

Nope and I don't corner cross in Oregon.
Should be legal everywhere provided you can cross at a pin.

 

[JWP58]

Corner crossing is not illegal in Wyoming.

Just depends who the d.a. is and what a judge rules. Some counties enforce it, some dont. A district judge ruled a few yrs ago that intent played a role in corner crossing, but there is no wy supreme court case law that I am aware of.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Easy solution. If its not accessible to the general public then its not accessible to anyone for any reason. Close the land off to grazing or other private uses until private land owners make the public land they have landlocked accessible. We as tax payers are paying for this land to be used as private land which only a few get to use. Don't get me started on the millions of dollars tax payers spend on the CRP lands that farmers shouldn't be planting anyways but we pay them not to plant the ground for wildlife. Farmers and ranchers have quite the little racket going at tax payer expense.

I just watched a hunting show were the guys were bragging about there hunting area where they guide hunter for profit used to be farm land but now is all in CRP. The government pays them not to farm then they turn around and make money guiding hunters on land that tax payers paid them to convert and are still paying them to keep in CRP. Racket for sure.

Wow, so much Mis-truths here...

CRP wasn’t about wildlife, wildlife is a by product. Also you make more farming, second limitions in amount of land you can put in, assuming it can be put in.

But you know everything so carry on.

With out the private land owner conservation peice you don’t have wildlife in vast majority of the lower 48

Public land access needs a work over to make it better, but lies like this makes the other side of the table walk.

 

[wapitibob]

Just depends who the d.a. is and what a judge rules. Some counties enforce it, some dont. A district judge ruled a few yrs ago that intent played a role in corner crossing, but there is no wy supreme court case law that I am aware of.

If you can find one single conviction of trespass via corner crossing in wyoming in the last 5 years I'd love to see it.
An aquaintence called the da in one county where the attorney promptly said they prosecuted but stuttered and stammered when asked for the court records showing they actually did it.

 

[Trial153]

Wow, so much Mis-truths here...

CRP wasn’t about wildlife, wildlife is a by product. Also you make more farming, second limitions in amount of land you can put in, assuming it can be put in.

But you know everything so carry on.

With out the private land owner conservation peice you don’t have wildlife in vast majority of the lower 48

Public land access needs a work over to make it better, but lies like this makes the other side of the table walk.

How much weaker can you get than having public land that cant be acesssed by the public but can be used by a private entity.

 

[JWP58]

If you can find one single conviction of trespass via corner crossing in wyoming in the last 5 years I'd love to see it.
An aquaintence called the da in one county where the attorney promptly said they prosecuted but stuttered and stammered when asked for the court records showing they actually did it.

To be completely honest, I dont care enough to look. I'm just telling you, there is zero Wyoming supreme court case law regarding corner crossing that would set a legal precedent. But I could be wrong, and please inform me that I am if so.

 

[cuerro viejo]

How much weaker can you get than having public land that cant be acesssed by the public but can be used by a private entity.

What does a CRP program ment to protect water and soil have to do with public access of public land? Zero, it’s a projection based on ignorance. It’s has zero todo with the conversation.

Land locked Public land needs to have access to it, use eminent domain for a permanent easement(its obvious swapping is out of the question), so land owners just need to great ready for a paid for/compensated land grab, it sux but only way to do it, because takes one idiot to piss off a land owner leased easement gets cut, can see the projectors on this thread.

With that said Public and Reservation Land shouldn’t be able to block access to private land also.

 

[muddydogs]

What does a CRP program ment to protect water and soil have to do with public access of public land? Zero, it’s a projection based on ignorance. It’s has zero todo with the conversation.

Land locked Public land needs to have access to it, use eminent domain for a permanent easement(its obvious swapping is out of the question), so land owners just need to great ready for a paid for/compensated land grab, it sux but only way to do it, because takes one idiot to piss off a land owner leased easement gets cut, can see the projectors on this thread.

With that said Public and Reservation Land shouldn’t be able to block access to private land also.

Must be a farmer with your hand in the jar.
CRP and the public land is all in the same basket of problems, the American public is paying for stuff that only a few benefit from and is not needed.
Most CRP land does make more then farming, see the farmers started to plow under everything from wet areas to rocky areas that should have never been plowed under. Along came CRP and what do you know, the area that the farmer always had to watch and make sure it was dry enough to drive on or he would be pulling out his stuck tractor can now stop planting the area and put it in CRP letting it return to its original state. Heck when the CRP program started up farmers where plowing ground they knew full well they shouldn't but they did so so they could then turn around and put it in CRP. Plus when you get right down to it the taxpayer is now paying for the land to be in CRP and should have the right to use it.
See I grew up in a farming town in Washington State and I watched the ditch banks, rocky eyebrows, wet areas, fence rows and other great pheasant habitat get plowed under all the while the government paying farmers to let the crop rot so they don't flood the market and have prices crash. Then later in life I spent some time with a group replanting some of these same areas under the CRP program.

It's kind of funny that the American public has to pay private landowners to help with conservation for the most part. If it wasn't for special interest groups raising money and State funds allocated to private land conservation you can bet there would be few landowners doing anything.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Must be a farmer with your hand in the jar.
CRP and the public land is all in the same basket of problems, the American public is paying for stuff that only a few benefit from and is not needed.
Most CRP land does make more then farming, see the farmers started to plow under everything from wet areas to rocky areas that should have never been plowed under. Along came CRP and what do you know, the area that the farmer always had to watch and make sure it was dry enough to drive on or he would be pulling out his stuck tractor can now stop planting the area and put it in CRP letting it return to its original state. Heck when the CRP program started up farmers where plowing ground they knew full well they shouldn't but they did so so they could then turn around and put it in CRP. Plus when you get right down to it the taxpayer is now paying for the land to be in CRP and should have the right to use it.
See I grew up in a farming town in Washington State and I watched the ditch banks, rocky eyebrows, wet areas, fence rows and other great pheasant habitat get plowed under all the while the government paying farmers to let the crop rot so they don't flood the market and have prices crash. Then later in life I spent some time with a group replanting some of these same areas under the CRP program.

It's kind of funny that the American public has to pay private landowners to help with conservation for the most part. If it wasn't for special interest groups raising money and State funds allocated to private land conservation you can bet there would be few landowners doing anything.

lies and felonies.

Crop insurance is based off historical yields, and is only a percentage. Every year you collect insurance it lowers your historical yield bases which equalyl lower insurance threshold. The program is designed to limit continual fraud.

So you are saying people plowed ground and lied about it being in production for years, falsified harvest data and enrolled and replanted in CRP approved grasses and Forbes. BS..... if it happened it was limited. Again farming makes more the CRP, but CRP is a lease, that pays less then individually farming but it guaranteed money. It’s a diversification tool, that benefits a lot more the the specific land owner.

Yes I know the program well, I’m in the heart of the country it was written to help protect. Ironically we haven’t had another dust bowl again..... there are more deer, elk, ducks and pheasants then it prior to it conception... that’s just game animals and game birds, there is also more rodents Hawks etc also.

Last time I checked, Grain purchasing power is 50% what it was in 1960. So essentially your food is 50% less then it was in 1960. I’d love to see grain follow inflation of the dollar like trucks, tractors, and even hunting licenses but the general public probably wants an affordable safe food source.....but ya you never see any thing for it........

You know whats not funny, when thier is nothing to sooth a farmers pain how he is going to keep a roof over his kids heads when there are 200 pronghorn on his wheat or 30 head elk laying over a corn circle.... I wonder what farmers did back pre Land owner tags, WRP, CRP, walk in access programs... lets check game numbers.....

So ya General Public gets paid probably three fold or more actually

Never the less it’s guys like you who project with BS, that are killing efforts to get more landowners to at a minimum enroll in State hunter access programs.


Again CRP has zero todo with Public Land access.

 

[itsTyrtruion]

so... muddydogs says:
I just watched a hunting show were the guys were bragging about there hunting area where they guide hunter for profit used to be farm land but now is all in CRP. The government pays them not to farm then they turn around and make money guiding hunters on land that tax payers paid them to convert and are still paying them to keep in CRP. Racket for sure.

im not sure... are you calling Muddydogs the liar... or the guys on the hunting show that bragged about the thing youre saying doesn't happen?

and texas.... is way different in the way it does things than all the other western states. a farmer that had 200 pronghorn in his wheat simply drove a truck down and back once a day and the issue resolved itself.... at least that's what my uncle did in California

CRP may not have anything to do with public lands access... but if your private lands are CRP and they land lock public lands and you guide or lease or charge a trespass... you are a piece of legitimate crap

 

[cuerro viejo]

so... muddydogs says:
I just watched a hunting show were the guys were bragging about there hunting area where they guide hunter for profit used to be farm land but now is all in CRP. The government pays them not to farm then they turn around and make money guiding hunters on land that tax payers paid them to convert and are still paying them to keep in CRP. Racket for sure.

im not sure... are you calling Muddydogs the liar... or the guys on the hunting show that bragged about the thing youre saying doesn't happen?

and texas.... is way different in the way it does things than all the other western states. a farmer that had 200 pronghorn in his wheat simply drove a truck down and back once a day and the issue resolved itself.... at least that's what my uncle did in California

CRP may not have anything to do with public lands access... but if your private lands are CRP and they land lock public lands and you guide or lease or charge a trespass... you are a piece of legitimate crap

Im calling BS in that he said lots of people committed felonies to enter into the program, that’s his justification for how it pays more then farming it.....that’s crap 24 million acres enrolled in program. I’m sure I’m not the only that takes offense to that.

I don’t care how someone uses thier private land, just because the have wind turbine that got government subs doesn’t mean I can plug my RV into thier house.

Drive a truck all you want animals come back. I see this daily in February when pronghorn herd up and mow down my wheat. I’ve seen hundreds of crop deprivation permits issued also. More states are using landowners tags to negate the CD permits. I remember when crops where fence row to fence row and ranchers farms shot deer on sight. Thankful farming practices and game management practices have changed, there for tolerance has changed.


I’ve already said laws need to be re-worked and if need be another great Land grab via eminent domain for easement since we can’t land swap. It needs to be reciprocal though and federal and reservation Land shouldn’t be able to block access to private land either. Again speaking of Land locked Land only

I image the percent of private land in CRP/WRP blocking federal land its not even a tenth of a percentage point. Vast majority is in the farm belt, farm belt is a grid road system

 

[Matt W.]

Interesting info via the RMEF if you dig a bit into their website. (Thanks for that tip earlier in this thread)
Here is a report on Montanta
http://www.rmef.org/Portals/0/Documents/15LWCF001_Report.pdf

 

[itsTyrtruion]

Im calling BS in that he said lots of people committed felonies to enter into the program, that’s his justification for how it pays more then farming it.....that’s crap 24 million acres enrolled in program. I’m sure I’m not the only that takes offense to that.

I don’t care how someone uses thier private land, just because the have wind turbine that got government subs doesn’t mean I can plug my RV into thier house.

Drive a truck all you want animals come back. I see this daily in February when pronghorn herd up and mow down my wheat. I’ve seen hundreds of crop deprivation permits issued also. More states are using landowners tags to negate the CD permits. I remember when crops where fence row to fence row and ranchers farms shot deer on sight. Thankful farming practices and game management practices have changed, there for tolerance has changed.


I’ve already said laws need to be re-worked and if need be another great Land grab via eminent domain for easement since we can’t land swap. It needs to be reciprocal though and federal and reservation Land shouldn’t be able to block access to private land either. Again speaking of Land locked Land only

I image the percent of private land in CRP/WRP blocking federal land its not even a tenth of a percentage point. Vast majority is in the farm belt, farm belt is a grid road system

Maybe 100% of the people you know in CRP are by the book.... sounds like Muddy has seen people that aren’t. Just because you haven’t witnessed it doesn’t make it “lies and felonies”

Especially when he said he watched a hunting show where people were bragging about it. I just don’t get why you’re so adamant that people are always good hearted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Trial153]

The Farm Bill sets a record every 5 years for the biggest welfare bill in history, however i think its beyond the scope of tje this debate.

I think most rational people would agree that public land should be accessible to the public. We know that isnt always the case and we know that private entitys in many cases are useing the land to profit while the American public foots the bill for it.
Simply put we need a better lobby.

 

[CorbLand]

Texans42, I agree with you on everything you are saying. I grew up in the heart of potato country in Idaho. Lots of good farms and landowners there. I will say that Utah is a whole nother level of different when it comes to farming and landowners. Utahans believe that everything that touches the border of there lands, is also theirs. Its a complete different world.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Maybe 100% of the people you know in CRP are by the book.... sounds like Muddy has seen people that aren’t. Just because you haven’t witnessed it doesn’t make it “lies and felonies”

Especially when he said he watched a hunting show where people were bragging about it. I just don’t get why you’re so adamant that people are always good hearted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They bragged about CRP increasing wildlife, no lying and committing felony fraud to get it enrolled.

There are 24 million acres enrolled in CRP/WRP. According to him that’s a lot of felons scamming the system.

When you have actually applied for the program and presented documentation, you will understand it’s not that easy. I have applied and had Land in three states in CRP(all the same process). I have even taken Land out of the program and written a refund check to the government for total payments.

It’s a great program and it’s done an exceptional job at doing what is was ment to do. Cut it tomorrow and the majority of that habitat both CRP and WRP goes back into production. That’s lots of nesting and fawning cover gone...

 

[wind gypsy]

Funny thing.. Looking at Ranch real estate listings, they include the landlocked public land in the total acreage of the listings.