New State restrictions on boots

[Trial153]

egocentrism will destroy us as a county, if it already hasn’t.

 

[ddowning]

No more decent wheel weights and none to cast into bullets.

Lead, lead paint, mercury, asbestos . We used it and played with it .

So did our grandparents.

The crap they put into food now
is worse than any of the stuff we dealt with.

I'm starting to feel as though the last sentence is one of the biggest problems in our society. Most doctors who truly understand modern processed food and metabolic function call the whole thing a science experiment. The problem is the system that has been based around it, the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and they negative effects on the food supply among other things if everyone wakes up and wants to eat right overnight.

Some doctors even claim cancer cannot grow without carbs to feed on. A lot of interesting info is becoming readily available in our society right now. The real question, how much is bullshit? Given the current state of affairs I would guess it will take 2-3 generations to sort it out.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

No real human cancer links, it’s the fact it’s a forever chemical meaning it has a very long half life.

Uh huh…..but how does that translate to alarm and banning materials used in boots, jackets etc? Do we really think me walking in the woods with gore tex in my boots is killing fish in rivers, contaminating wells, etc? Doesn’t pass the sniff test man.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

So you want proof, but "We found a shit ton of carcinogens in the drinking water" and "the manufacturing plant is dropping off pallets of water to folks with contaminated wells" doesn't count?

This shit's a chemical (actually an enormous knot of related chemicals), not a person. We're not going to find a manifesto, "I gave little Timmy cancer! Yours truly, PFAS."

So yeah, I think it's safe to say there's no bona fide proof that would convince you. But I don't think there could be.

Sorry, but at the end of the day I care more about my balls than your shoes.

Yes, i absolutely need proof before i lose my mind, panic, and support banning anything suspected to be the culprit of causing mass mania.

You ever think that, yeah, it’s there but in a level that causes zero harm? Same as every other of the countless chemicals you and wildlife are exposed to on a daily basis. Ban my boots but go on pumping fuel in your truck weekly. Talk about hypocrisy man.

Benzene Exposure and Cancer Risk from Commercial Gasoline Station Fueling Events Using a Novel Self-Sampling Protocol - PMC

Tens of millions of individuals go to gasoline stations on a daily basis in the United States. One of the constituents of gasoline is benzene, a Group 1 carcinogen that has been strongly linked to both occupational and non-occupational leukemias. ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Better support banning gasoline man if you support banning the Gore Tex in my boots.

 

[The Ri Guy]

Yes, i absolutely need proof before i lose my mind, panic, and support banning anything suspected to be the culprit of causing mass mania.

You ever think that, yeah, it’s there but in a level that causes zero harm? Same as every other of the countless chemicals you and wildlife are exposed to on a daily basis. Ban my boots but go on pumping fuel in your truck weekly. Talk about hypocrisy man.

Benzene Exposure and Cancer Risk from Commercial Gasoline Station Fueling Events Using a Novel Self-Sampling Protocol - PMC

Tens of millions of individuals go to gasoline stations on a daily basis in the United States. One of the constituents of gasoline is benzene, a Group 1 carcinogen that has been strongly linked to both occupational and non-occupational leukemias. ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Better support banning gasoline man if you support banning the Gore Tex in my boots.

I've already said my piece on Page 2, but your response made me jump back in as someone who works in this field and follows the data religiously.

Multiple states have already (for years) been issuing "do not eat" advisory's for multiple-species of animals taken within heavily PFAS contaminated areas. For now, this is mostly related to organ meat like the Liver, which many of us prize and eat first thing, but PFAS contamination is starting to be discovered in the muscle (meat) of animals as well.

This will only continue to get worse as articulated in my previous response, and is why some of the more progressive states are taking preemptive measures to ban products containing these chemicals early.

Here are a few states pre-existing advisories, for reference:

Michigan: https://www.michigan.gov/pfasrespon...b28d7a4&hash=27FBE6857598F252502F249E7E20C99B

Maine: https://www.maine.gov/ifw/hunting-trapping/hunting/laws-rules/pfas-related-consumption-advisory.html

New Hampshire: https://www.wildlife.nh.gov/hunting-nh/deer-hunting-new-hampshire/deer-meat-safety-precautions

Wisconsin: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/PFAS/Advisories.html

This is a very real issue and not some granola conspiracy. All of us as sportsmen and conservationists should be highly concerned with ANYTHING that is contaminating our natural landscapes and the residents (human, deer, turkey, bear, elk, etc. etc.) within them. None of us can, in good faith, say we are hunting for good, clean, pure protein as a hunter, while ignoring the impact and slow build up of toxic contaminants within our herds and landscapes for the sake of our boots and rain gear, sorry.

This issue will only continue to grow. Mark my words, the anti's will come for us one day saying "the meat isn't safe to eat, so you have no legs to stand on justifying hunting these animals".

If you don't want to believe it, that's cool too. Not here to argue with anyone.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

I've already said my piece on Page 2, but your response made me jump back in as someone who works in this field and follows the data religiously.

Multiple states have already (for years) been issuing "do not eat" advisory's for multiple-species of animals taken within heavily PFAS contaminated areas. For now, this is mostly related to organ meat like the Liver, which many of us prize and eat first thing, but PFAS contamination is starting to be discovered in the muscle (meat) of animals as well.

This will only continue to get worse as articulated in my previous response, and is why some of the more progressive states are taking preemptive measures to ban products containing these chemicals early.

Here are a few states pre-existing advisories, for reference:

Michigan: https://www.michigan.gov/pfasrespon...b28d7a4&hash=27FBE6857598F252502F249E7E20C99B

Maine: https://www.maine.gov/ifw/hunting-trapping/hunting/laws-rules/pfas-related-consumption-advisory.html

New Hampshire: https://www.wildlife.nh.gov/hunting-nh/deer-hunting-new-hampshire/deer-meat-safety-precautions

Wisconsin: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/PFAS/Advisories.html

This is a very real issue and not some granola conspiracy. All of us as sportsmen and conservationists should be highly concerned with ANYTHING that is contaminating our natural landscapes and the residents (human, deer, turkey, bear, elk, etc. etc.) within them. None of us can, in good faith, say we are hunting for good, clean, pure protein as a hunter, while ignoring the impact and slow build up of toxic contaminants within our herds and landscapes for the sake of our boots and rain gear, sorry.

This issue will only continue to grow. Mark my words, the anti's will come for us one day saying "the meat isn't safe to eat, so you have no legs to stand on justifying hunting these animals".

If you don't want to believe it, that's cool too. Not here to argue with anyone.

Ban EVERYTHING man made then?

They’re in Iphones too, ban em!

https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Regulated_Substances_Specification.pdf

Medications, in them too, ban em.

Look, i understand your point of view but the reality is the Gor Tex in your boots isn’t the problem. The drinking water is most likely contaminated by wastewater treatment plants NOT some guy hunting elk or a hippie walking around in the woods with a rain jacket on.

If you’re serious about this what’s your stance on Iphones, medications, etc? How about the benzene in gasoline people are exposed to pumping gas? Ban it all?

In Wisconsin, mercury and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs)are the pollutants upon which most special fish consumption is based not PFAs. Straight from the article you cited. Most of that contamination comes from the Cesspool called Chicago NOT Gore Tex boots and rain coats.

But man, gotta get rid of those boots and rain coats NOW! Come on man you gotta take everything you read nowadays and inject some good old fashioned common sense into it. Particularly if it’s from a Govt source or university “expert” whose very job is dependent on scaring you.

Me, i’ll gladly keep wearing gor tex i guarantee it isn’t going to kill me, you, or the river.

 

[MuleyFever]

egocentrism will destroy us as a county, if it already hasn’t.

Some people just can't think past their own front door.

 

[The Ri Guy]

Ban EVERYTHING man made then?

They’re in Iphones too, ban em!

https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Regulated_Substances_Specification.pdf

Medications, in them too, ban em.

Look, i understand your point of view but the reality is the Gor Tex in your boots isn’t the problem. The drinking water is most likely contaminated by wastewater treatment plants NOT some guy hunting elk or a hippie walking around in the woods with a rain jacket on.

If you’re serious about this what’s your stance on Iphones, medications, etc? How about the benzene in gasoline people are exposed to pumping gas? Ban it all?

Wisconsin has been telling me CWD is going to cause the extinction of whitetails too yet there are more than ever.

But man, gotta get rid of those boots and rain coats NOW! Come on man you gotta take everything you read nowadays and inject some good old fashioned common sense into it. Particularly if it’s from a Govt source or university “expert” whose very job is dependent on scaring you.

Me, i’ll gladly keep wearing gor tex i guarantee it isn’t going to kill me, you, or the river.

Of course it won't kill us, what the data is showing is negative repercussions to our reproductive ability and the health of those fetus' and infants exposed, in addition to further negative repercussions primarily for those who are already "unhealthy". Reproductive health is paramount to the continuation of our species on the whole, and fertility rates are already declining dramatically. Maybe there's a correlation, maybe there isn't.

As articulated in my first post, I highly doubt this issue is ever resolved until a new technology comes along to make things better. There are trillions of dollars at stake revolving around PFAS in virtually every industry conceivable. We will continue on our path and our descendants in a couple generations will be on the receiving end of whatever catastrophe might await, or not.

I agree with you, banning PFAS containing rain gear and boots is going to do a negligible amount of good. Rain and snow carry PFAS, at a much higher rate than a thru-hiker or hunter in a remote basin. But it at least shows that some regions are aware of, and concerned about, this issue.

It's also not about what contaminates the most or is the worst, it's about the fact that these chemicals last for exceptionally long periods of time. They last half of the average human lifespan within us, and 30+ generations in the ambient environment. Lasting longer and accumulating at a faster rate than they will dissipate.

I have lived in the chemical and plastic manufacturing space for most of my life and all of my professional career. I am not here to express my opinion, I am simply trying to articulate the alarming initial data as it relates to our health, and the common sense outcome if we continue down our path -- everything will be contaminated and more than just humans will suffer adversely.

NanoBubble, NanoBot, and various other technologies show promise in cleaning up or destroying PFAS chemicals, but contain their own financial, practical, health, and environmental challenges.

As for gas fumes and Benzene, lucky for you I am our refinery specialist these days and have had both heavy metal and chemical exposure incidents involving chelating therapies after toxic levels of exposure, in fact I had one two weeks ago on the job. The risk to the average person at the gas pump is extremely negligible unless they're trying to hurt themselves intentionally by pouring gas on themselves or maximizing inhalation of fumes. So, no, we should not ban Benzene and gas, as only a special type of customer is going to intentionally give themselves Benzene poisoning, and I would guess we are all in the same boat of "f*ck around and find out" in that capacity.

 

[RS_Non-Res]

"Your kids just a crippled retard. It's not my fault." - says the CEO of Hooker Chemical Co., original owner a little ditch in New York called Love Canal (it's not a real quote, but you get the point).

Lots of industries have been working on the PFAS issue for decades, both looking for viable replacement technologies/products and planning for environmental liabilities. My first question when I heard about the new legislation was "are there lab methods that can detect it at those levels?" The answer is yes.

Pretty sure Wisconsin's PCB and Hg problems are from the legacy paper industry, not from Chicago. That sh*t doesn't go away very fast either. Usually just wait until new sediments burry it in the lake bottom. Kinda gives new meaning to the name of the little lake down stream from Winnebago: "Butte des Morts."

I gotta say I'd rather deal with these first world problems than suicide bombers and raw sewage in the water supply.

Thanks @The Ri Guy for lining it out without hyperbole.

 

[ADKHTR]

For anyone that loves Lowa Tibets like me and is affected by this, my assumption is the original Lowa Tibet GTX will be discontinued by the amount of crazy sales they had this fall and limited stock all over, and the new Lowa Tibet EVO GTX will be replacing them.. with “No intentionally added PFAS” boots

 

[roosiebull]

Confine those states to moccasins and breechcloths.

How about their own island, I would prefer an ocean, or at least a sea between me and those people

 

[TimberRunner]

After spending a weekend duck hunting in driving snow and wet conditions, I'll take whatever the negative implications of hunting in goretex are.

 

[dirtshooter]

For anyone that loves Lowa Tibets like me and is affected by this, my assumption is the original Lowa Tibet GTX will be discontinued by the amount of crazy sales they had this fall and limited stock all over, and the new Lowa Tibet EVO GTX will be replacing them.. with “No intentionally added PFAS” bootsView attachment 822116

I have some OG Tibets barely worn. Wonder if they'd sell easily.

 

[SDHNTR]

I have worked in the Single-Use Plastics and Chemical industries for two decades now in sectors such as BioPharma, BioTech, Chemical Manufacturing, Refining, and Food & Bev, and currently work for a company that manufactures single-use plastics. Virtually every drug, vaccine, sauce, shampoo, water bottle, snack, etc. that goes into or is consumed by anyone, is produced using heavy PFAS materials in the fluid-systems or paths during manufacturing, or are packaged in PFAS materials.

Why? Because PFAS are incredibly durable, and phobic to essentially any type of liquid, be it water, oil, ketchup, glue, you name it. It is also infinitely faster and more profitable to use PFAS for production and packaging.

PFAS are progressively more well-studied, but still in the early stages of "science" and "medicine" understanding their impact. The data on just the handful of the PFAS family of chemicals that have been studied, is alarming. The vast majority of PFAS chemicals have not been studied at all yet, as there are thousands of chemicals within the family. Based on what we do know, they should ban them all*, everywhere, in everything, as quickly as possible.

* (This is not physically possible in our lifetime or probably ever due to their absolute prevalence in virtually every meaningful industrial process or manufacturing sector, and the immense lobbying power of industries that rely on these chemicals to hit profit numbers, kickback to politicians, etc. etc. etc.)

One semi-frequently cited study in our circles for reference: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7906952/

Environmentally, the concern is as already described prior -- leachability into the water supply, and the long-term accumulation of PFAS in said water supply, rising to the surface, etc. PFAS have been shown to impact animals outside of humans. I have not heard of any data or seen any studies (outside of locations adjacent, downwind, or down-stream of chemical plants) that indicated any meaningful build up in natural landscapes yet. But it is inevitable if the manufacture and usage of PFAS continues.

Practically speaking, the risk of PFAS shedding and absorption from clothing through the skin is minimal compared to how much exposure we have from nearly anything we eat and drink these days. Talk to any compliance officer or chemist involved in the design and manufacture of outdoor gear, and they will tell you your risk of PFAS exposure from clothing is largely limited to the presence of moisture (sweat) combined with friction, directly on the skin. This goes for most synthetic materials that are against your skin in those conditions. This is why you see a big push in media and marketing back to natural fiber underwear, and away from synthetic underwear. Because PFAS have shown clear impacts on reproductive organs in both men and women. DWR is pure PFAS, but is external to your body, so almost exclusively an environmental concern as it degrades on your rain gear. When you wash your rain gear in the washer, then you are introducing those PFAS to your ground water and water supply as well.

Largely, precaution is the key here and what states are going for. Early studies are showing clear and concerning negative health impacts of PFAS to humans and animals, and the half-life's range all the way up to 40 years in the human body for some of these chemicals. In the ambient environment, PFAS once again have varying half-life's, with some reaching up to 1,000+ years. The continued accumulation of them, combined with early warning signs of their impact, are why folks are raising the flag and banning them early. Again, this is all preliminary findings with very strong correlations.

PFAS are in virtually everything these days, there is no escaping them in your day-to-day life anymore.

This is really a case of "hey, this is for sure bad for us, maybe we should do what we can to mitigate it now instead of later", or not making it our children's problem and destroying future generations biology and food/water supplies.

In the end, if you are a younger adult with health and longevity in mind, you may want to invest the time into researching the already known effects on the human body from PFAS. The best you can personally do, is to eliminate sources of PFAS in your personal life ranging from your clothing, food and water storage, cooking utensils/pans, cleaning chemicals, etc.

Ultimately, though, unless you live in an extreme remote and untouched location, with your own stable food and pure water supply, you aren't escaping PFAS no matter what you do.

This is an incredibly informative post. Thanks!

 

[cuerro viejo]

Uh huh…..but how does that translate to alarm and banning materials used in boots, jackets etc? Do we really think me walking in the woods with gore tex in my boots is killing fish in rivers, contaminating wells, etc? Doesn’t pass the sniff test man.

It’s more stop it at retail sales level, then consumer. It’s a law that will never really be enforced…

Well unless you run for President as Republican, then they will charge you with 10 felonies, for procession of a controlled substance

I’m SURE state agencies we’ll be watched and audit on their purchases….lol

The whole thing is dumb

 

[Mosby]

For anyone that loves Lowa Tibets like me and is affected by this, my assumption is the original Lowa Tibet GTX will be discontinued by the amount of crazy sales they had this fall and limited stock all over, and the new Lowa Tibet EVO GTX will be replacing them.. with “No intentionally added PFAS” bootsView attachment 822116

I just pulled a brand new pair out of the box to start the break in process. I've had them for a couple years but I need to replace some of my older boots.

 

[TandKHunting]

One should also note....many of us that manufacture products in the states using USA materials are already beginning to use no intentionally added PFAS materials containing C0 water repellent finish. The laws banning textile materials containing PFAS are coming and textile mills in the USA will have to be in compliance. Many of them are already seeing the writing on the wall and creating their own DWR's with no intentionally added PFAS.

Polartec (what we use for our beanies and neck gaiters) already eliminated PFAS from their DWR in 2022.

For brands manufacturing overseas in China and Vietnam...will see how that goes. Older reports suggest China is resilient on stopping PFAS use, but I would assume they will have no choice if they want products coming into the USA.

I'm no hippie, but I am all for eliminating chemicals that can potentially harm the environment. I think every outdoorsman can be on board with that.

 

[crich]

PFAS clothing is a drop in the bucket next to food wrappers/boxes, paper plates/cups, wax paper etc.

There are so many more common items literally designed to be thrown away that come in contact with our food daily.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

PFAS clothing is a drop in the bucket next to food wrappers/boxes, paper plates/cups, wax paper etc.

There are so many more common items literally designed to be thrown away that come in contact with our food daily.

Add your cellphone and medications to the list. Most of these are getting into the water supply via wastewater management not rain coats. Though Apple has an exemption because PFAs are “necessary for manufacture” so they get a pass. Guess they are only harmful when in Gor Tex or DWR?

 

[go_deep]

And this is why like it or not we need to stand up and speak out against every anti hunting, trapping, or fishing bill out there.
They dream of stuff to ban that we can't even imagine.