New Rifle Build- Bullet and Caliber- Mono metal- Thoughts?

[DagOtto]

I agree. Yet some of his thoughts could use some modernization too.

In this Internet age, where information is no longer vetted prior to being published, I think one of the most important life skills is the ability to discern BS from informative value. There’s lots of both on this site. And sometimes, both come from the same source. I’ve learned from both schools of thought and do not fully dismiss, nor blindly subscribe, to either side.

One of things I've found most interesting in comparing the content and opinions from Form and Barsness is how much their "old school" and "new school" opinions alignt. In one of Barsness's chapters in he Gun Gack books he literally says that recoil negatively affects almost everyone's accuracy level to the point that smaller calibers are probably a more affective and humane killer of animals. Between the two of them I think there is probably more in agreement than not. I found his stuff to be mostly rooted in fact much more than most.

 

[DagOtto]

I will admit I did not read through all the pages on this but it is something I've been debating myself. Right now, by the way, I shoot a 6.5 PRC with 147 grain DRTs
They are not making the 147 grain anymore who knows if they ever will again...
I also know that all of their products are out of stock and that concerns me a bit.
I would love to make a 6 Mill creedmoor. For out to 500 it would absolutely be a wonderful caliber for killing all sized game but DRT only makes a 95 grain bullet and I'm concerned with that weight. Maybe @Formidilosus has some thoughts on that.
If we're looking at a one and done type scenario it's really tough to beat the 6.5 creedmoor IMO with the right bullet such as the 135 grain DRT if it gets back in stock anytime soon. Simply bc of the vast number of rifles and manufacturers.
Also if we are not to see much more of the DRT ammunition (which would be a true disappointment) you might look at Maker's bullets as their design seems to expand significantly even for the standard mushroom bullet type, with a larger expansion character vs similar style of monolithic bullets.
Cheers and good luck!

Hey MatukaJoe,

Form did weigh in on this discussion (probably on page 2) and says that between .223, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm and .308 the same model of bullet will create wound channels that are almost indistinguishable from small to large calibers even though the weight and size of the bullets are so different. (this is a pretty massive paraphrase.) He also said that 6mm CM is the easy choice if your looking for an easy button. And he said, if you choose to shoot non-lead your first best choice is DRT, and second (but behind quite a bit,) is Barnes LRX.

I find his claim about calibers not affecting "real world" wound channel size , along with his claim that any decently designed hunting bullet almost never fail from lack of penetration--- to be mind blowing. These two factoids alone are enough to pretty much blow-up 100 years of what we have been told by the hunting press, the gun and ammo industry, professional guides, and our good old grandpas. The really crazy thing is that his arguments about both make a lot of sense. And if he is to be believed, he has a very large sampling of dead animals to prove these claims out. Nathan Foster is about the only other ballistician / terminal ballistics guy I've heard of who has thousands and thousands of animals he's personally shot/witnessed and autopsied. Incidentally, Foster once told me that for elk he'd recommend a .30 caliber bullet. So he has differing opinions than Form, but is 100% in alignment with him on match bullets for affective wound channel creation and against traditional monos.

I was literally mid-build on a 300 WSM when I came across Form's interviews with the Exo Mtn gear guys.. and after listening to those shows two or three times each I abandoned that build (had the proof barrel already,) and built a 6.5 CM instead. In 5 days I hope to shoot an antelope or two with this build and I can't wait to put his advice to the test.

I believe that there is a set of "best practices" for affectivey and humanly killing game animals with a rifle. And I belive that facts and studies can be either found or created to prove what is BS and what is true. But the industry doesn't seem to want to invest in that kind of data. (military clearly does.) I would give my left nad to have an independent testing facililty publish gel testing of bullets impacting FBI gel at 3000, 2500, 2000 and 1500 FPS. They could even scan the gel blocks with MRI type scanning and develop a true 3d volumetric model of wound channels. How hard could it be? Problem is that it would probably hurt a lot of bullet sales. I can see why the industry would much rather have us gun dorks arguing endlessly about X and Y bullets and calibers. And besides, what would we do with ourselves?

 

[DagOtto]

How about put a custom barrel on it chambered in 30-06 only use a 24" barrel instead of the 22" factory barrel they come with. Put a nice aftermarket stock on it and have a gunsmith fine tune the trigger to 2.5 pounds. No flies on the 30-06 especially with a well bedded and tuned 24" barrel. Keep it but make it better.

Thanks for the idea. I have discovered that I shoot much better with lower recoil (and especially suppressed.) Over the last 20 years I've migrated slowly down from .338 win mag. (HATED that gun!) to the 30-06, to a .308 (still love this one,) and now down to 6.5 CM and maybe even to 6 CM. It hasn't been as straight lined as that really, as I've got a .280 AI, a couple of .243s etc. But the bottom line is that less recoil has allowed me to shoot better, and I've shot a LOT more practice too.

The other reason i'm shying away from the good ole 30-06 is that I'm shooting non-lead ammo and the traditional mono-metal bullets (Barnes, Federal Trophy Copper, Nosler E-Tip, Hornady CX) all need to impact animals at 2000 FPS or higher for affective expansion. And love the 06 and the .308 win as much as I do,, they don't give me the velocity I need to hunt much past 300 yards.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Thanks, I have been using Nosler's reloading data to come up with my capacity and speeds. I've taken the average "max" of the various powders tried and then deducted 50 fps per inch from the test barrel listed to get to approximate 18" barrel speeds. Not super accurate, but I feel that the comparison between cartridges is probably pretty realistic.

50fps per inch is way too much. 25 is more realistic, and sometimes not even that much.