New Mexico’s super lotto

[Ten Bears]

Mt Taylor herds were apparently, shot out. The DOW went to primitive weapons only some years ago and cut back total elk tags but it was too late. You can’t take that many herd bulls out of the rut along with post-rut cows and expect the herds to stay stable. Drought and predators factor in but the number of tags should be adjusted accordingly. There are some elk in Marquez WMA.

Unit 53 has well over a hundred Unit Wide Mature Bull tags. There also quite a few post-rut cow hunts in GMU 53 that are unit wide landowners tags but I did not count them. Not even mentioned are the unit wide landowners tags for archery seasons which are either sex.

Look at GMU 53 on a 3D map like Basemap or OnX. It should become blatantly obvious why most of the elk are on Public Lands. That is why those ranches opted for Unit Wide land owners tags in the first place. Unit 9 and 53 are just the tip of the iceberg. There are other units with high numbers of Unit Wide Landowners tags where the herds are declining on public lands. Plummeting success rates are one indicator of herd health.

Most elk are on private in 53 ? You clearly haven’t been in 53 or bothered to look at a map.

Success rates in 53 are low because it’s a butt kicker of a hunt with the altitude and insane amounts of deadfall. Period. Has nothing to do with LO tags or elk heading to private.

The amount of dumb things that you try to pass off as facts is astonishing.

Even funnier is how many LO tags go unused in 53 or for ridiculously cheap because it’s a hard hunt.

 

[Gila]

Most elk are on private in 53 ? You clearly haven’t been in 53 or bothered to look at a map.

Success rates in 53 are low because it’s a butt kicker of a hunt with the altitude and insane amounts of deadfall. Period. Has nothing to do with LO tags or elk heading to private.

The amount of dumb things that you try to pass off as facts is astonishing.

Even funnier is how many LO tags go unused in 53 or for ridiculously cheap because it’s a hard hunt.

More blatant crap coming from you again.

Why aren’t they taking more elk on private lands then? DUH! All of that great private land holding elk opened up for public hunting? …yea right! Couldn’t be further from the truth! Being disingenuous about eplus sums it up rather well.

So you agree that Unit 9 public lands were over hunted because of e-plus management? You should, because that is what happened!

 

[Ten Bears]

More blatant crap coming from you again.

Why aren’t they taking more elk on private lands then? DUH! All of that great private land holding elk opened up for public hunting? …yea right! Couldn’t be further from the truth! Being disingenuous about eplus sums it up rather well.

So you agree that Unit 9 public lands were over hunted because of e-plus management? You should, because that is what happened!

I haven’t spent time in Unit 9 so I don’t speak on it, YOU should try it out sometimes.

How is it that every single person is wrong except you ?


Have you hunted 53 ? Do you even hunt ? The elk in 53 move out of the high country when the snow flies and move onto private (and some onto 50). if it’s early then the private is a good place to be. with how ridiculously dry it is lately in 53 they need the help of ranchers for some water and habitat. The elk numbers are fine there. What’s the argument against helping the herd and ranchers when they are helping each other. LO tags are cheap, draw odds for res are good, herd is healthy.. What is the problem ?

If you spent even a 10th of your time doing something constructive or helping a landowner or making real life connections instead of making up dumb ass arguments on the internet for whatever hidden group you rep you could easily hunt every year.

 

[Gila]

I haven’t spent time in Unit 9 so I don’t speak on it, YOU should try it out sometimes.

How is it that every single person is wrong except you ?


Have you hunted 53 ? Do you even hunt ? The elk in 53 move out of the high country when the snow flies and move onto private (and some onto 50). if it’s early then the private is a good place to be. with how ridiculously dry it is lately in 53 they need the help of ranchers for some water and habitat. The elk numbers are fine there. What’s the argument against helping the herd and ranchers when they are helping each other. LO tags are cheap, draw odds for res are good, herd is healthy.. What is the problem ?

If you spent even a 10th of your time doing something constructive or helping a landowner or making real life connections instead of making up dumb ass arguments on the internet for whatever hidden group you rep you could easily hunt every year.

You still dodge why the success rates are so low. Deadfalls on public lands doesn’t cut it as a reason. And you continue to dodge why the success rates are so low on private land opened up to public hunting. But then I know why because there isn’t any elk to hunt on that property. You are a fool to project that it is only about me. We have a US Senator on our side as well as most of the state’s legislature. Even the current Governor has come out against e-plus. You and the other dissents on this thread are about the only ones standing for e-plus. You are in the minority not me!

 

[Ten Bears]

More blatant crap coming from you again.

Why aren’t they taking more elk on private lands then? DUH! All of that private land opened up for public hunting? …yea right! Being disingenuous about eplus sums it up rather well.

So you agree that Unit 9 was shot out because of the high number of unit wide landowners tags? You should, because that is what happened!

I don’t agree with whatever bullshit you are talking about in Unit 9, I know zero about that unit. I would actually be giving “blatant crap” as you so eloquently say. So don’t put words in my mouth.

53 Specifically (as each unit is obviously unique) Elk being shot on public on a land owner tag is not a bad thing. It’s part of the program that you clearly do not understand.

Ranchers supply wintering ground, habitat improvement, water, and access (which in 53 - in turn the state does a lottery to help offset the ranchers with the tag to sell or keep. It functions, it has the state biologists overseeing it and adapting to changes in climate and herd dynamics, it gives the elk some help with rancher skin in the game, it allows folks that didn’t draw a tag many levels of opportunity.

All you do is gaslight, cherry pick, and lie. You never answer a question straight forward, if at all, often give old data, use AI (poorly at times) or get salty and write incoherent bullshit.

 

[Gila]

gaslight, cherry pick, and lie.

That’s your MO buddy! You haven’t posted anything credible yet! I put out the proven facts. You refute those facts by spinning out make believe situations. Dude, you would go broke as an influencer.

 

[Ten Bears]

That’s your MO buddy! You haven’t posted anything credible yet! I put out the proven facts. You refute those facts by spinning out make believe situations. Dude, you would go broke as an influencer.

This is one of the weirder, lamer retorts I have got on the internet…

“you would go broke as an influencer” is like saying I would be a terrible prostitute. Which in my book is a compliment…so thanks!

 

[Gila]

At one point in time the success rates were somewhat decent for GMU 53. The MB unit wide tags were going for $5,000 some years back, that is if you could get an outfitter to sell you one. That’s why there are still about 200+ unit wide landowner tags given to landowners in that unit.

I have hunted GMU 45 but typically stay in the South west-central these days. There are elk in the deadfalls in that unit. Better said on the edges of deadfalls. The success rates reflect the terrain difficulty and migration, yet remain relatively good for GMU 45. I don’t think it is a coincidence that there are only about 35 unit-wide Mature Bull tags allocated to landowners in GMU 45.

——————————————————————————————————————-
Jesse Deubel - Executive Director of New Mexico Wildlife Federation - Quote from Cal’s Podcast:

“when you see the unit wide option chosen, what you can almost always automatically assume is that there are no elk on the private land that's being opened up for hunting during hunting season. That's essentially a given. I don't know any hunter who's buying a unit wide landowner tag and is hunting on the private land. Conversely, I don't know any hunter who draws a public land tag who's saying, man, I'm going to go hunt that private piece that's opened because he sold a unit wide tag. The fact that he sold it as unit wide tells you it's not worth hunting those deeded acres anyway.”
—————————————————————————————————

 

[Kodiak06]

I can’t tell if the irony in your posts is intentional or subconscious projection. Either way it’s pretty funny.

I am sure this will go as well as your APR thread did for you..

He's a clown. He commented on another thread that non-residents shouldn't be allowed to buy OTC tags lol

 

[WRO]

“when you see the unit wide option chosen, what you can almost always automatically assume is that there are no elk on the private land that's being opened up for hunting during hunting season. That's essentially a given. I don't know any hunter who's buying a unit wide landowner tag and is hunting on the private land. Conversely, I don't know any hunter who draws a public land tag who's saying, man, I'm going to go hunt that private piece that's opened because he sold a unit wide tag. The fact that he sold it as unit wide tells you it's not worth hunting those deeded acres anyway.”
—————————————————————————————————

He must not know many hunters then because I know several that have successfully.

Most people are just too lazy to load all the eplus in their onX.

 

[Gila]

And Jesse goes on about the secondary elk management zones. I should point out that it works the same way for deer and pronghorn. Authorizations to hunt deeded acres are converted to tags on the DOW web. There is no quota for either sex. Once again 99% of those tags are rolled into guided hunts or sold by outfitters/hunt clubs to non-residents:

“Or they could sell cow bull Either sex makes no difference. They could sell authorizations to hunt elk rifle, bow, doesn't make a difference, unlimited as many as they want, period…for anybody to buy and can hunt exclusively on the deeded acreage. They're not hunting unit wide, they're not hunting public land with those authorizations, but they can hunt on the deeded acres and the landowners can sell unlimited amount. Okay, And this is also interesting to know in New Mexico and the entire state. This is kind of an aside, but the entire state, any landowner can sell unlimited tags for deer and pronghorn on their deeded land. There's absolutely zero limit to the number of deer, pronghorn tags any landowner can sell to harvest those species on their private land. Which is hard to comprehend.“

 

[WRO]

And Jesse goes on about the secondary elk management zones. I should point out that it works the same way for deer and pronghorn. Authorizations to hunt deeded acres are converted to tags on the DOW web. There is no quota for either sex. Once again 99% of those tags are rolled into guided hunts or sold by outfitters/hunt clubs to non-residents:

“Or they could sell cow bull Either sex makes no difference. They could sell authorizations to hunt elk rifle, bow, doesn't make a difference, unlimited as many as they want, period…for anybody to buy and can hunt exclusively on the deeded acreage. They're not hunting unit wide, they're not hunting public land with those authorizations, but they can hunt on the deeded acres and the landowners can sell unlimited amount. Okay, And this is also interesting to know in New Mexico and the entire state. This is kind of an aside, but the entire state, any landowner can sell unlimited tags for deer and pronghorn on their deeded land. There's absolutely zero limit to the number of deer, pronghorn tags any landowner can sell to harvest those species on their private land. Which is hard to comprehend.“

Actually antelope tags are on quota in most of northern nm.

I do agree that the current free for all sucks on antelope.

 

[Gila]

Jesse goes on about solving the issue of access to private property. I personally think that a land owner should have a choice between getting paid annually per acre for hunting access (like SD walk-in program) or sell access to public draw tag winners as Jesse describes. I think we could get more buy in from land owners if they have a choice. I also think that access brokers like Infinite Outdoors would save the DOW lots of money if they don’t have to administer access to private lands:

“What needs to happen is something more similar to what happens in Montana with block management. Let's provide an incentive program for landowners, but let's incentivize them based on what they own, which is the land. The thing we could we could have a draw that would include all kinds of tags that are only available on private deeded land. But you still have to dry draw those tags through a democratic process, a public draw, a lottery essentially, but when you acquired that tag, you would have to pay a trespass fee to access the private property on which to hunt. I'm completely supportive of a system like that because absolutely a landowner should be able to sell access to the land. The issue I have is a landowner selling access to public wildlife. You know, sell what you own, not what I own.”

 

[Gila]

Actually antelope tags are on quota in most of northern nm.

Not correct…only GMUs in 7 NE counties have a quota because the herds are in steep decline. But the DoW also took away 20% of the public draw tags in those GMUs. There is no quota on OTC in the rest of the state including the Plains of St. Augustine.

 

[WRO]

Not correct…only GMUs in 7 NE counties have a quota because the herds are in steep decline. But the DoW also took away 20% of the public draw tags in those GMUs. There is no quota on OTC in the rest of the state including the Plains of St. Augustine.

I said northern nm and the whole ne corner which is the majority of the antelope habitat is quota.

Anyways, feel get to get back to your nonsensical ranting and gaslighting.

 

[Gila]

I said northern nm and the whole ne corner which is the majority of the antelope habitat is quota.

Anyways, feel get to get back to your nonsensical ranting and gaslighting.

Just shows how little you know about New Mexico hunting.

Private-land pronghorn license sales are limited in GMUs 41, 42, 47, 56, 57, 58 and 59

 

[WRO]

Just shows how little you know about New Mexico hunting.

Private-land pronghorn license sales are limited in GMUs 41, 42, 47, 56, 57, 58 and 59

No shit sherlock, I’ve been hunting 41 and 58 for nearly a decade. That’s a huge section of northern New mexico.

Anyways go back to eating crayons or whatever other stupid shit you do in your free time.