new mexicans not happy with res / non res splits

[WRO]

It would be better to have 50% fewer elk than to private wildlife. That's a fact......if you want hunting to be affordable for all.

I’m lost, please explain.

Are you saying all of our public lands are going to be sold off if there’s land owner tags?

 

[Legend]

I’m lost, please explain.

Are you saying all of our public lands are going to be sold off if there’s land owner tags?

Google The Kings Game.

Someone always has more money. Take a look at the price of elk landowner tags since inception. No one would have dreamed those tags would be worth 20k, 30k etc. In the not so far future (20 years,50 years, etc.) those tags hit 100k. There is no end to who has more money.

Money makes decisions/runs government. That 6% NR allotment is vulnerable if Landowners start pressuring government for more tags/profit. Next thing you know those resident tags are vulnerable....because it is just too much money to waste good tags on the public.

NOTHING is worse for public elk hunting than privatized for profit elk licenses.

History has shown us how this plays out. We should avoid this terrible mistake.

 

[WRO]

Google The Kings Game.

Someone always has more money. Take a look at the price of elk landowner tags since inception. No one would have dreamed those tags would be worth 20k, 30k etc. In the not so far future (20 years,50 years, etc.) those tags hit 100k. There is no end to who has more money.

Money makes decisions/runs government. That 6% NR allotment is vulnerable if Landowners start pressuring government for more tags/profit. Next thing you know those resident tags are vulnerable....because it is just too much money to waste good tags on the public.

NOTHING is worse for public elk hunting than privatized for profit elk licenses.

History has shown us how this plays out. We should avoid this terrible mistake.

We have history being played out in every western state showing otherwise.

As for tag costs, the highest priced ones are very limited. What’s worse, a land owner getting paid, or 30 cows and calves getting murdered in the winter because they’re on his fields?

In Oregon for example, we have OTC 9 month cow seasons murdering off the best units in the state at the requests of the ranchers.

In NM we have Jennings law, what do you think will happen to those elk that winter on private (never met an elk with ONX) when they have no value to people who’s land they cross onto?

I understand your thought process, but the reality is that if they have no value to the landowners that have to feed and house them much of the year, there will be even less elk and less tags for the public land hunter.

Do you think that private property signs will burned in the street and we’ll all get access? Or maybe Gila will get so rich as the paid spokesman for infinite outdoors he’ll buy the Great Western and let us all hunt for free?

 

[kwackkillncrew]

just curious, how do the old mexicans feel about the split?

 

[Gila]

I wasn’t aware of that! Thank you for sharing! That seals the deal and definitely knocks down AZ below NM in my book

I would caution verification there. AZ and NM don’t have the cattle ranching issues that Idaho, Montana do. In those states issues arise mostly because of the high number of predators and less quality habitat on public lands surrounding the ranches. Some posters here want to make it look like more of a problem than it is to keep landowner tags in NM. Also, there is an anti-hunting agenda to stop cattle grazing on public lands in Arizona.

There is good hunting on some cattle grazing leases within the National Forests, simply because the habitat is very good. Giving landowners big game tags instead of helping out with predation in other ways is at the expense of our resident hunting opportunity. The fact is the Jennings law referenced is about giving power to the Game Commission to come up with ways to mitigate predation on private lands. To suggest that a rancher can just slaughter any game animal that jumps the fence is ridiculous. The reason why they are hitting on AZ is because there was a public comment made at the last NM game commission meeting to take a look at the AZ public draw system.

You will find that the non-resident land owners, members of hunt clubs and non-resident outfitters are the ones that support landowner tags in New Mexico. They want to continue to come here and sell off our wildlife for their own gain. History teaches us that every time hunting has been privatized the wildlife loses. Residents only agenda is to draw a big game tag and hunt.

 

[Gila]

Do you think that private property signs will burned in the street and we’ll all get access? Or maybe Gila will get so rich as the paid spokesman for infinite outdoors he’ll buy the Great Western and let us all hunt for free?

I simply mentioned Infinite Outdoors as an example of how landowners who do not want public hunting can make money booking hunts on their property. I learned about Infinite Outdoors From Ryan’s Shoot2Hunt podcast. People see through you like a window…dude!

 

[WRO]

I would caution verification there. AZ and NM don’t have the cattle ranching issues that Idaho, Montana do. In those states issues arise mostly because of the high number of predators and less quality habitat on public lands surrounding the ranches. Some posters here want to make it look like more of a problem than it is to keep landowner tags in NM. Also, there is an anti-hunting agenda to stop cattle grazing on public lands in Arizona.

There is good hunting on some cattle grazing leases within the National Forests, simply because the habitat is very good. Giving landowners big game tags instead of helping out with predation in other ways is at the expense of our resident hunting opportunity. The fact is the Jennings law referenced is about giving power to the Game Commission to come up with ways to mitigate predation on private lands. To suggest that a rancher can just slaughter any game animal that jumps the fence is ridiculous. The reason why they are hitting on AZ is because there was a public comment made at the last NM game commission meeting to take a look at the AZ public draw system.

You will find that the non-resident land owners, members of hunt clubs and non-resident outfitters are the ones that support landowner tags in New Mexico. They want to continue to come here and sell off our wildlife for their own gain. History teaches us that every time hunting has been privatized the wildlife loses. Residents only agenda is to draw a big game tag and hunt.

How many states have you hunted elk in? How many states do you have strong ties to landowners/our outfitters with in who have elk? Aren't you from South Dakota where there's very few elk?

I've killed elk in six states and have relationships across the west with outfitters and large land holders. I haven't met a rancher who doesn't complain about elk. They tolerate them when they have value, when they don't they get killed.

You can lie (I don't know what other word to use here) about Jennings law as much as you want, but even your pet group calls it out as an issue. Its at the landowners discretion, not the NM game commission.

Legislation to Reform NM's "Jennings Law" Passes First Committee Hearing — New Mexico Wildlife Federation

By BEN NEARY NMWF Conservation Director A bill to reform a state law that allows landowners to kill wildlife they believe is threatening their crops cleared its first committee hearing Saturday with the strong support of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation. The Senate Conservation

www.nmwildlife.org

I touched on AZ because I hunt AZ, for example 3A and 3C has taken a serious hit in quality because those bulls are killed all summer long on the St johns OTC hunt. It's that way all across the state. Elk habitat expansion is constrained to keep them happy.



Most states wage war on elk at the Land Owner requests, our winter ranges have turned into slaughter houses the last 2 decades across the west. NV has a law on the books that the state is only allowed to have 16K elk, the turn the tag faucet on the instant they get close. There were several years that if you drew a big 7 deer tag, they'd just give you a cow tag to control numbers. Nevada is over 80% public lands.

Can you please explain to us simple folks how supporting cattle on public lands that directly compete with elk for food is anti-hunting?

 

[Jethro]

It would be better to have 50% fewer elk than to private wildlife. That's a fact

Your opinion that something is a fact, does not make it so.

 

[Gila]

To suggest that elk would be slaughtered without e-plus is ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is that there should be two distinct universes: private land and public land tags. This is what we hear from the NM outfitters association. The outfitters in New Mexico want to continue to own the big game hunting here when they aren’t even stakeholders. They merely provide services to hunters and a place to sleep. Those services should be voluntary. We could argue it here until the cows come home. It’s really in the ballot box now…We have a gubernatorial race this year and primaries in June. The candidates that have the best solutions for resident hunting will win.

 

[Blackcow]

The last time a ranch tried leverage their access compact with AZGFD over land owner antelope tags, AZGFD just cancelled all hunts in that unit and told the ranch to enjoy their antelope. Don’t kill any. The compromise on the Big Bo for elk was to let the the Ranch( owned by the Navajo reservation) set some ground rules with access times, cameras, hunting around tanks and road access, and charge a small fee. After the 19b issue with antelope, the Big Bo knew if they pressed for landowner tags, game and fish would just cancel the hunts, or cut the tags, and tell them to enjoy their elk. Don’t kill any..The ranch is a very large part of unit 10, pretty small public area left to hunt elk on. There’s only a few ranches that would benefit from LO tags, unless you count the stupid little 40 acre ranchetts. Hunters in Arizona overwhelmingly oppose LO tags or any Utah style of raffle tags.

 

[khunter]

lol guess the 6% of tags we non guided non res get is too much

That is an absurdly uninformed or purposely deceitful summary take to have. Most of the total elk tags land in nonres hands because the state provitizes most tags that end up sold to the highest bidder (wealthy nonresidents). This is a FACT.

In your home state (if you live in a state that hosts wild elk) would you be OK with a system that privitizes most of the elk resource instead of ensuring most hunt opportunity goes to residents? That EPLUS system for elk in NM is stealing the public's resource that should be in a public draw, not doled out as outfitter welfare.

 

[Gila]

The last time a ranch tried leverage their access compact with AZGFD over land owner antelope tags, AZGFD just cancelled all hunts in that unit and told the ranch to enjoy their antelope. Don’t kill any. The compromise on the Big Bo for elk was to let the the Ranch( owned by the Navajo reservation) set some ground rules with access times, cameras, hunting around tanks and road access, and charge a small fee. After the 19b issue with antelope, the Big Bo knew if they pressed for landowner tags, game and fish would just cancel the hunts, or cut the tags, and tell them to enjoy their elk. Don’t kill any..The ranch is a very large part of unit 10, pretty small public area left to hunt elk on. There’s only a few ranches that would benefit from LO tags, unless you count the stupid little 40 acre ranchetts. Hunters in Arizona overwhelmingly oppose LO tags or any Utah style of raffle tags.

I was at “Ground Zero” of the pronghorn wars in South Dakota around 2004. Most of the Pronghorn in SD are on Private like many other states. There were alot of pronghorn then. We were getting three pronghorn tags for a hunt code. Also could get two mule deer doe tags to use while pronghorn hunting. The herds were in the thousands. Most ranchers gladly gave permission to hunters but we weren’t taking enough out so the ranchers wanted to kill them. State said no but eventually came out with the walk-in program that encouraged public hunting. Hunters still weren’t killing enough animals but the overall harvest did increase quite a bit. The ranchers were getting paid dollars on the acre which offset the predation….problem solved by increasing hunting opportunity!

 

[WRO]

To suggest that elk would be slaughtered without e-plus is ridiculous. Equally ridiculous is that there should be two distinct universes: private land and public land tags. This is what we hear from the NM outfitters association. The outfitters in New Mexico want to continue to own the big game hunting here when they aren’t even stakeholders. They merely provide services to hunters and a place to sleep. Those services should be voluntary. We could argue it here until the cows come home. It’s really in the ballot box now…We have a gubernatorial race this year and primaries in June. The candidates that have the best solutions for resident hunting will win.

I'm not suggesting, it will happen.

It has happened all across the west for the last 2 decades.

Comparing elk to antelope or deer show's your lack of knowledge. Antelope do not destroy fences, eat 20lbs of feed a day, or raid haystacks.

I'm friends with some major landowners, I have not met one that's not protective of their deer, most of their antelope, but the vast majority add curse words to describe elk.

Do you ever plan on answering any questions or is your plan to continue to bloviate and make stuff up?

 

[WRO]

In your home state (if you live in a state that hosts wild elk) would you be OK with a system that privitizes most of the elk resource instead of ensuring most hunt opportunity goes to residents? That EPLUS system for elk in NM is stealing the public's resource that should be in a public draw, not doled out as outfitter welfare.

If it means more populations of huntable elk, then yes.

The units I hunt in Oregon have had serious declines in populations. Non objective people will blame wolves and predators because that's the easy button. Truth is thousands of cows are being slaughtered every winter because big ag interests pushed for unlimited OTC tags and have state statutes written that make getting additional tags as easy as a phone call. Are predators helping, no but they aren't the only factor, just a shiny object to distract people.

I've shot 2 bulls on Eplus open public ground on the tags I have drawn.

Most states do not have that opportunity for access.

 

[khunter]

If it means more populations of huntable elk, then yes.

The units I hunt in Oregon have had serious declines in populations. Non objective people will blame wolves and predators because that's the easy button. Truth is thousands of cows are being slaughtered every winter because big ag interests pushed for unlimited OTC tags and have state statutes written that make getting additional tags as easy as a phone call. Are predators helping, no but they aren't the only factor, just a shiny object to distract people.

I've shot 2 bulls on Eplus open public ground on the tags I have drawn.

Most states do not have that opportunity for access.

Sure, as have I (hunted unit wide EPLUS ranches) for drawn tags and you did NOT hunt the RANCH ONLY EPLUS ranches. The whole EPLUS system screws residents and that is WRONG.

It is not that hard to see NM puts most elk tags in the hands of non residents, no matter how some want to selectively look at certain pieces to qualify or excuse it--Most NM elk tags are hunted by nonresidents.

Anybody who thinks that is OK under any supposedly extenuating circumstances or justifications quite simply does not believe residents in each state have a legal right to the large majority of tags before nonresidents get a chance at them.

 

[huntsd]

NM Lawmakers Question Legality of Outfitter Set-Aside Law — New Mexico Wildlife Federation

By Ben Neary NMWF A group of New Mexico legislators has asked the state attorney general for a formal opinion on the legality of the state law that reserves 10 percent of the big game hunting licenses in the public draw for hunters who contract with registered outfitters. The lawmakers filed a le

www.nmwildlife.org

 

[Ten Bears]

How does it screw residents ?

Residents get 84 percent of the tags in the draw.

Resident guides get 10 percent of the tags in the draw ( which all residents can also take advantage of)

Non Residents get 6 percent

The 14k eplus tags that are there to help wildlife as the program is designed to, in a destitute borderline lawless state are available to anyone to purchase.

Most of these landowners themselves are New Mexicans.

I have said it many times. Call folks on the list, offer up some work or help. Be nice. I get a tag every couple years by being a decent human.

Pay attention- TONS of these tags never get sold or hunted.

STOP using a couple Gila tags or hard to draw units as this gold rush on prices.

I find tags for less than what Utah charges NRs for any weapon elk tag or what Wyoming gouges NRs for a special tag.

Come to the reality that hunting is expensive in 2026 like everything else.

Also come to the reality that if you hate Landowners actually making some money to help wildlife then turn off your TV and internet. Stop supporting the hunting media that hunts on these tags. THEY ALL DO.

Why can everyone else whore out wildlife hiding in the name of “conservation” but a landowner who actually has to help to receive these tags is in the wrong ?

Want to make some changes to the EPlus and make sure landowners are holding up there end of the deal ? yep! all for it.

But FFS stop your whining and crying or flat out lies to hide your true intentions of furthering the pimping out of wildlife.

 

[Gila]

I'm not suggesting, it will happen.

It has happened all across the west for the last 2 decades.

Comparing elk to antelope or deer show's your lack of knowledge. Antelope do not destroy fences, eat 20lbs of feed a day, or raid haystacks.

I'm friends with some major landowners, I have not met one that's not protective of their deer, most of their antelope, but the vast majority add curse words to describe elk.

Do you ever plan on answering any questions or is your plan to continue to bloviate and make stuff up?

There are no questions to answer. I don’t report to you. That bull crap you pontificate is in your own mind!

 

[WRO]

There are no questions to answer. I don’t report to you. That bull crap you pontificate is in your own mind!

Okay rainman, I can cite my bullcrap, can you?

Plenty of questions have been asked directly to you that you fail to answer.

For example why should hunters support public land grazing?

You’re probably better suited for debating which Taylor swift song is the best as it doesn’t require anything but feelings either.

 

[WRO]

Sure, as have I (hunted unit wide EPLUS ranches) for drawn tags and you did NOT hunt the RANCH ONLY EPLUS ranches. The whole EPLUS system screws residents and that is WRONG.

It is not that hard to see NM puts most elk tags in the hands of non residents, no matter how some want to selectively look at certain pieces to qualify or excuse it--Most NM elk tags are hunted by nonresidents.

Anybody who thinks that is OK under any supposedly extenuating circumstances or justifications quite simply does not believe residents in each state have a legal right to the large majority of tags before nonresidents get a chance at them.

If the state was run better and not one of the poorest in the nation, there’d probably be more residents buying tags.


There’s plenty of other states where most lo tags end up residents pockets.