New hunting arrow setup suggestions, what are y’all shooting?

[K_pem]

Finally got a new (to me) bow setup: Mathews Phase 4 29. Going to be pulling 70-75lbs 80% let off at 28” draw.

Im not sure what kind of arrow components I want to go with but here’s what I’m thinking:

-Total arrow weight between 450-475gr (trying to maximize speed relative to weight to get the best Kinetic energy and momentum; seems this range produced the best kinetic energy:momentum ratios without sacrificing speed too much >270fps)
-Shooting for 15% FOC
-I want to try a 4mm (looking at VAP TKO, Deep impacts, X impacts, or ??)
-50 ish grain outserts
-Fixed blade (Maybe Iron Will if I can justify cost, if not maybe Annhilator or?)
-Not sure on vanes (AAE Max/Hunter? Q2i?)

Looking for suggestions or someone that shoot a similar setup with a solid arrow they’ve worked up?

I’m relatively new to this nerding out on the archery setup thing. My previous bow was a 10+ year old Bear and I just shot FMJ off the shelf with either Trophy taker or Montec broadheads.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mighty Mouse]

My advice is to avoid outserts/half-outs and to ignore FOC/KE/momentum numbers.

If I were to shoot a 4mm arrow, the only insert I would trust is a Deep Six HIT...but that would severely limit broadhead choices because not many manufacturers offer a Deep Six option. There's nothing wrong with a good old standard diameter (6.5mm/.245") arrow...they're relatively inexpensive, durable, and compatible with simple RPS-style inserts. A 5mm arrow with an 8-32 thread HIT is a good compromise if you insist on something skinnier than standard diameter.

 

[big44a4]

Finally got a new (to me) bow setup: Mathews Phase 4 29. Going to be pulling 70-75lbs 80% let off at 28” draw.

Im not sure what kind of arrow components I want to go with but here’s what I’m thinking:

-Total arrow weight between 450-475gr (trying to maximize speed relative to weight to get the best Kinetic energy and momentum; seems this range produced the best kinetic energy:momentum ratios without sacrificing speed too much >270fps)
-Shooting for 15% FOC
-I want to try a 4mm (looking at VAP TKO, Deep impacts, X impacts, or ??)
-50 ish grain outserts
-Fixed blade (Maybe Iron Will if I can justify cost, if not maybe Annhilator or?)
-Not sure on vanes (AAE Max/Hunter? Q2i?)

Looking for suggestions or someone that shoot a similar setup with a solid arrow they’ve worked up?

I’m relatively new to this nerding out on the archery setup thing. My previous bow was a 10+ year old Bear and I just shot FMJ off the shelf with either Trophy taker or Montec broadheads.

Thanks in advance!

I was shooting 4mm for a while but past few years have had and seen better durability with 5mm components. For what you are looking for I’d go with an RIP TKO, brass hit insert, and mfjj titanium collar. That will be the most affordable route for the best arrow as I’ve built many dozens for buddies. If you aren’t convinced build the same components on the RIP shaft to save some money.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

IME, the rip tko is a way more durable arrow than the Pierce platinum, and hits give way less wobble than outserts. The only trick is getting the hits to actually stick to rip tkos, but it can be done.

A slick way to do a 5mm build is to use a 25 gr collar with 100 gr broadheads, and 125 gr field points with no collar so it's easier to pull the arrow out of targets.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I’ve been shooting Gold Tip XT Hunters for about a decade and have had good luck with them.

 

[K_pem]

My advice is to avoid outserts/half-outs and to ignore FOC/KE/momentum numbers.

If I were to shoot a 4mm arrow, the only insert I would trust is a Deep Six HIT...but that would severely limit broadhead choices because not many manufacturers offer a Deep Six option. There's nothing wrong with a good old standard diameter (6.5mm/.245") arrow...they're relatively inexpensive, durable, and compatible with simple RPS-style inserts. A 5mm arrow with an 8-32 thread HIT is a good compromise if you insist on something skinnier than standard diameter.

Even with a decent SS or Ti outsert you'd still advise against it? Curious why you say to ignore FOC/KE/Momentum?

I ran FMJ's in the past and the Easton Axis, neither i had issues with other than just not "dialing" them in really. I dont think i have any reason to go to a standard diameter with so many good 4 and 5mm options.

What is your opinion on specific 5mm arrows and Vanes with or without wraps, ect? I also want to run lighted knocks for hunting.

 

[K_pem]

I was shooting 4mm for a while but past few years have had and seen better durability with 5mm components. For what you are looking for I’d go with an RIP TKO, brass hit insert, and mfjj titanium collar. That will be the most affordable route for the best arrow as I’ve built many dozens for buddies. If you aren’t convinced build the same components on the RIP shaft to save some money.

I've had a few people recommend the RIP over the VAP but I always see this "big time" archery guys settling on the 4mm diameters. Are you speaking to durability in terms of misses/ pass throughs and arrow life in that regard?

Why the collars??

Also curious about what Vanes you recommend for a decent size fixed blade ?

 

[K_pem]

IME, the rip tko is a way more durable arrow than the Pierce platinum, and hits give way less wobble than outserts. The only trick is getting the hits to actually stick to rip tkos, but it can be done.

A slick way to do a 5mm build is to use a 25 gr collar with 100 gr broadheads, and 125 gr field points with no collar so it's easier to pull the arrow out of targets.

Honestly never even considered the Pierce platinum. But for a 5mm i think i would probably be looking at RIP anyways, maybe the BE's too.

In that scenario are you just setting aside your hunting arrows and obviously using the collars just for those then?

Also, like everyone else i asked... haha: Vane preference?

 

[FiremarshallBill]

I’ve been shooting Gold Tip XT Hunters for about a decade and have had good luck with them.

Same for me, every year I tell myself I'll try something new after archery season but they are just to easy to find and priced right.

 

[WMag338]

I've been pleased with my 5mm Easton Axis. Made in USA too!

 

[fatlander]

Even with a decent SS or Ti outsert you'd still advise against it? Curious why you say to ignore FOC/KE/Momentum?

I ran FMJ's in the past and the Easton Axis, neither i had issues with other than just not "dialing" them in really. I dont think i have any reason to go to a standard diameter with so many good 4 and 5mm options.

What is your opinion on specific 5mm arrows and Vanes with or without wraps, ect? I also want to run lighted knocks for hunting.

Outserts suck. Even the incredibly hard ones, still suck.

4mm shafts have one advantage: less wind drift and that’s overinflated by people selling arrows.

If you’re going to put a fixed blade on the front of it, I wouldn’t worry the list bit about the shaft size relative to wind drift. That giant rudder on the front is going to catch more than enough wind.

5mm arrows with a HIT are better, but you’ve still got to run a collar. That collar will keep you from shooting bag targets and it’s one more thing in the system to not be perfectly straight.

Lighted nocks are inconsistent.

You can build 3 dozen match grade 6.5s with brass for the price of one dozen 4mm. I’ll send you another dozen if you shoot worse scores with the 6.5s than the 4mm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Billy Goat]

Any outsert starts to magnify any little bit of wobble because of the length. It also acts as a lever and if there's any diagonal force on the front of your broadhead it increases the force where the insert mates to the shaft. For target with a glue in bullet point there's no issues, for hunting the headaches aren't worth the benefits in my opinion.


Foc is a %, I don't care too much about it as an arrow that is 2.5" longer but otherwise the same can have a fair amount of difference than one that is shorter. I don't think it being 2.5" longer makes it any different in flight or penetration ability. I do think you want to have a certain amount of weight up front. But I don't think if it comes up to 10% or 15% foc matters. Plenty of long draw shooters that struggle to get 10% still shoot really good scores.

Your KE is going to be pretty constant, it's a function of draw weight and your draw length, arrow weight makes little difference.

Momentum favors arrow weight, it will of course increase with arrow mass. I personally think it's way over blown, shoot a well tuned setup, good broadhead, the rest doesn't matter. I have seen too many low energy setups kill to be worried about it. And if you are trying to assemble an arrow to blow through a shoulder joint, that's a small percentage of the animal, that usually doesn't cover much or any of the vitals unless you are taking a shot that just isn't appropriate for archery. I'd rather have a little more speed so a few yards difference doesn't put me in the brisket or the spine.


Vane height is a lot of what controls the broadhead, sone cones from length. Higher profile heads need higher profile vanes. I usually recommend a minimum of .47" tall for moderate sized fixed heads with decent offset.

 

[Bump79]

Here's what I would do for 4mm shafts - I've been running the Element Storm 300 shaft for 4 years and they're just like a BE X-Impact. Very durable for the GPI & are 40% off right now with Preseason40. They come with Ethics components or you could sell those and go with the Evolution Glue in System.

Storm Arrows 12 Pk. - Bare Shafts (.001 straightness)

Flying Arrow Archery was founded in 2012 by Chris Rager in the incredible state of Montana. See our wide selection of archery broadheads, shafts, arrows, nocks, and more.

buyflyingarrow.com

JEKYLL Glue-In 175g

175 GR - 416 Hardened Stainless Steel Select from packages of 3, 4, 5 or 6. Compatible with 4mm/.166 ID Fixed Blade Groups consistently with your field points 3/4" Front blade 1" Cutting diameter main blade 420 Stainless steel blades Front and main blade thickness .060 US machined & assembled...

evolutionoutdoors.com

GLUE-IN COLLARS

PACK OF 6 Select your collar size for your glue-in heads based on the OD of your arrows. Available in 10G Aluminum or 30G 416 Stainless Steel

evolutionoutdoors.com

This would be an amazing setup at you're desired weight and not cost you an arm and a leg. If you need help building them hit me up.

 

[JF_Idaho]

Another vote for the RIP TKO. I'm running them with the SS outset, 125 gr head, 6" wrap and 4 AAE Max vanes with standard nocks. Lasers with both slick trick mags and Stinger w/ bleeders.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Honestly never even considered the Pierce platinum. But for a 5mm i think i would probably be looking at RIP anyways, maybe the BE's too.

In that scenario are you just setting aside your hunting arrows and obviously using the collars just for those then?

Also, like everyone else i asked... haha: Vane preference?

if you don't glue the collars on your hunting arrows are your target arrows.

 

[K_pem]

Here's what I would do for 4mm shafts - I've been running the Element Storm 300 shaft for 4 years and they're just like a BE X-Impact. Very durable for the GPI & are 40% off right now with Preseason40. They come with Ethics components or you could sell those and go with the Evolution Glue in System.

Storm Arrows 12 Pk. - Bare Shafts (.001 straightness)

Flying Arrow Archery was founded in 2012 by Chris Rager in the incredible state of Montana. See our wide selection of archery broadheads, shafts, arrows, nocks, and more.

buyflyingarrow.com

View attachment 683839

JEKYLL Glue-In 175g

175 GR - 416 Hardened Stainless Steel Select from packages of 3, 4, 5 or 6. Compatible with 4mm/.166 ID Fixed Blade Groups consistently with your field points 3/4" Front blade 1" Cutting diameter main blade 420 Stainless steel blades Front and main blade thickness .060 US machined & assembled...

evolutionoutdoors.com

GLUE-IN COLLARS

PACK OF 6 Select your collar size for your glue-in heads based on the OD of your arrows. Available in 10G Aluminum or 30G 416 Stainless Steel

evolutionoutdoors.com

This would be an amazing setup at you're desired weight and not cost you an arm and a leg. If you need help building them hit me up.

Interesting concept. I've never heard of either of these brands before but i will have to check them out. Should give plenty of FOC at any length without too much overall weight. I just dont know how i feel about glue in broadheads vs a screw in type.

 

[Bump79]

Interesting concept. I've never heard of either of these brands before but I will have to check them out. Should give plenty of FOC at any length without too much overall weight. I just don't know how I feel about glue in broadheads vs a screw in type.

A glue in system (using archery hot melt) really doesn't have much for downsides and is primarily upsides. It fixes a lot of the problems that people have with 4mm shafts. Worst case scenario - you heat them up and pull them out to put in the screw in type.

A glue in is generally stronger, definitely more so than a 50 grain, and has better runout. I personally haven't found a 50 grain system for a 4mm shaft that met my standards. The aluminum bends easily and I'm just not a fan.

I'd go with a 75-100 grain setup for a 4mm if I didn't do glue in. If I didn't use a 75 grain Ti insert/outsert I'd use a 5mm shaft with HIT & Collar.

 

[big44a4]

I've had a few people recommend the RIP over the VAP but I always see this "big time" archery guys settling on the 4mm diameters. Are you speaking to durability in terms of misses/ pass throughs and arrow life in that regard?

Why the collars??

Also curious about what Vanes you recommend for a decent size fixed blade ?

I don’t glue collars. I don’t see 4mm has better wind drift in my shooting and what I’ve seen. As another said throw a fixed on the front that will negate and difference 1mm in shaft would possibly help if a person was good enough shot to even tell.

Collars increase durability substantially for all aspects. Pass throughs, hard impacts, missing the target etc. I don’t glue them on. I shoot bag targets almost exclusively with ZERO issues with my collars. Now a cheap $20 bag will give you issues but my big shot bags have thousands of shots and not one issue. Delta and other bag targets suck.

I use mostly AAE Hybrid 26 right now as it’s the nearly the most quiet and forgiving. Tinker a lot with vanes. Griff X 3.0 is the most quiet but its low profile wouldn’t be forgiving with a fixed. Dca super Sabre’s are not as quiet as griff X and about the same as a hybrid 26. Silent knights especially the 2” are not silent at all.

See collar and hit below on hard impact. TI broadhead ferrule snapped and arrow is still good as new from my elk this season.

 

[5MilesBack]

Back when I started archery almost 20 years ago, I jumped in head first. I tested everything I could get my hands on......arrow shafts, inserts/outserts, vanes, BH's, lighted nocks, regular nocks, etc. My top two priorities were consistent accuracy and durability. It didn't take long for me to funnel towards 5mm shafts, HIT inserts, Bohning A-nocks, NO collars, and NAP Quikspin 2" Speed Hunter vanes.

And while I've changed up arrow shafts over the years, here I am years later shooting RIP TKO's (5mm shafts), HIT inserts, A-nocks, no collars, and 2" Speed Hunter vanes. I also use Q2i Fusion Xii 2.1" vanes in a 4-fletch as well. The Speed Hunters are a tall profile vane like BG mentioned, and work great in a 3-fletch with fixed blade BH's. The Fusion Xii's are a lower profile vane that act and fly similarly in a 4-fletch to my Speed Hunters, so they're essentially interchangeable for me.

As to the collars......"to me" they're just another piece added to the end of my arrow that would have to be perfectly balanced, squared, trued, sized......and stay that way. Just like the outserts........no thanks. I have a long draw, shoot high draw weights, and like to shoot a lot of stuff. After almost two decades, I just haven't found a good reason to use collars. That is unless you're using a less durable arrow to start with. I.e......If I was using BE Rampage shafts......I'd have to use collars, and would still be breaking arrows behind the collar.

 

[jbelz]

I will be using the Day Six Evo CS this year. I have had a lot of success with their traditional Evo's and centric system. Wyoming company, good customer service, great products and tolerances.