New ATF rule for firearm sales

[cuttingedge]

If you use a ffl for transfers, this rule has no effect on you. It’s to prevent people from buying and selling without using a ffl and thus avoiding a 4473 as a registry.

As I read it, I can take say 20 guns from my collection and go to a singe gun show and sell them with no ffl. I did not buy them to sell, they are not new or in boxes and I did not make it a repetitive occurrence. I really see no real change due to this rule.

I see this as going after guys who buy/sell a small number of guns a year and regularly go to gun shows to sell.

Well, that's not what I got out of it. Did you read the ATF FAQ section regarding this? I did. If you didn't I would strongly suggest that you do. That's part of why I came away with my interpretation.

This rule is designed in part to stop private transfers. Go find some of the gun lawyers videos and/or comments on it. You can very easily be labeled "Engaged in the Business" basically at the ATF's discretion. I think you might need to better educate yourself via lawyers opinions on it.

The ATF is trying to criminalize people who are not doing anything wrong. The number of firearms used in crimes because of the so-called "Gun show loop hole" is 0.8%. Less than 1%. This rule ain't about any gun shows.

The guy the ATF murdered in Arkansas, that was easily and completely avoidable. They could have confronted him any number of places without incident. Tell me, if someone comes crashing through your door before daylight what are you going to do? I'm not saying the guy didn't commit a crime, but we will never know because he is stone dead. No body cam footage. It is conveniently at the discretion of the ATF whether or not to use them. BS.

The ATF is not your friend.

 

[Red Letters]

 

[gunslinger922]

Since I've been told to keep it PG-13 on here... Frick the ATF.

Well that comment was enlightening! I was hopeful this forum, unlike so many others, had a better, smarter class of people. You have proved I was mistaken

 

[gunslinger922]

Well, that's not what I got out of it. Did you read the ATF FAQ section regarding this? I did. If you didn't I would strongly suggest that you do. That's part of why I came away with my interpretation.

This rule is designed in part to stop private transfers. Go find some of the gun lawyers videos and/or comments on it. You can very easily be labeled "Engaged in the Business" basically at the ATF's discretion. I think you might need to better educate yourself via lawyers opinions on it.

The ATF is trying to criminalize people who are not doing anything wrong. The number of firearms used in crimes because of the so-called "Gun show loop hole" is 0.8%. Less than 1%. This rule ain't about any gun shows.

The guy the ATF murdered in Arkansas, that was easily and completely avoidable. They could have confronted him any number of places without incident. Tell me, if someone comes crashing through your door before daylight what are you going to do? I'm not saying the guy didn't commit a crime, but we will never know because he is stone dead. No body cam footage. It is conveniently at the discretion of the ATF whether or not to use them. BS.

The ATF is not your friend.

You are right, the Arkansas incident was avoidable….. don’t shoot at Federal Agents

 

[IDVortex]

smarter class of people.

So, are you saying if someone hates the atf, they're not smart?

I mean, not everyone may not like the taste of leather, but to each their own i guess. I guess we have folks who claim to be furries nowadays, so I guess tasting boot leather is the same.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Well that comment was enlightening! I was hopeful this forum, unlike so many others, had a better, smarter class of people. You have proved I was mistaken

Do you usually dredged up almost 2yr old comments as your introduction on other forums too?

 

[IDVortex]

Do you usually dredged up almost 2yr old comments as your introduction on other forums too?

I didnt even catch that part.

 

[z987k]

Do you usually dredged up almost 2yr old comments as your introduction on other forums too?

It's throw away posts so he can get access to the classifieds or PMs.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

It's throw away posts so he can get access to the classifieds or PMs.

Its SOMETHING that's for sure, ha.

 

[gunslinger922]

Or maybe I’m just tired of ATF catching all the blame for the bullshit directives put out by the Biden Administration. The rank and file agents and investigators are just doing their jobs like anyone else. If y’all don’t like something your boss tells you to do, do you tell him the f-off and not do your job? No, you do your damn job to feed your families

 

[gunslinger922]

Besides, who cares how old a post is. It’s still here for all to read, sonn no it’s still televant

 

[JohnsIsl]

Or maybe I’m just tired of ATF catching all the blame for the bullshit directives put out by the Biden Administration. The rank and file agents and investigators are just doing their jobs like anyone else. If y’all don’t like something your boss tells you to do, do you tell him the f-off and not do your job? No, you do your damn job to feed your families

If my bosses told me to violate the constitutional rights of others I absolutely would tell them to f-off.

Values, morals, convictions… whatever you want to call it.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

It's throw away posts so he can get access to the classifieds or PMs.

...so he can sell a bunch of guns without a license probably. Or so he can monitor and collect Intel about everyone selling guns... maybe he IS the AFT!

Lol dude came in swinging..

 

[Kimber7man]

Or maybe I’m just tired of ATF catching all the blame for the bullshit directives put out by the Biden Administration. The rank and file agents and investigators are just doing their jobs like anyone else. If y’all don’t like something your boss tells you to do, do you tell him the f-off and not do your job? No, you do your damn job to feed your families

Directives have been done and gone for over a year....

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Besides, who cares how old a post is. It’s still here for all to read, sonn no it’s still televant

Regardless of that post contents: One person doesn’t speak for a forum, you are proof of it.

You showed up hot out the gate associating the entire forum with a comment 2yrs old. That’s an interesting mix of ignorance and arrogance.

 

[gunslinger922]

Regardless of that post contents: One person doesn’t speak for a forum, you are proof of it.

You showed up hot out the gate associating the entire forum with a comment 2yrs old. That’s an interesting mix of ignorance and arrogance.

You know what, you have a valid point and I apologize. I recently retired from ATF and have many friends still working for the Bureau. All are excellent, moral and upstanding agents and investors. For years we have been blamed for the policies and directives of whatever political party was in power. With Biden it was worse than I had ever seen. As with any job, you ride it out knowing the political winds are constantly changing. As for “violating the Constitution” and telling our bosses to f-off” as suggested above, well, it’s not that clear cut. Everyone has their own opinion of when a particular situation rises to the level of “violating the Constitution” in over 20 with ATF, I never felt I violated the constitution. Did I disagree with policy changes, ABSOLUTELY! Was I vocal about it, ABSOLUTELY. Actually, might have told a boss or two, in slightly different words to f-off, ABSOLUTELY. In my opinion, you stay in the fight and stand up for what you feel is right but when it comes to differences (short of violating the constitution, I fall back on what my father always said, the golden rule is, the man with the gold makes the rules” So yes, I stayed and did my job, a job I loved!
ATF has an important role in the regulation of firearms for illegal purposes. Anyone who calls for the abolishment of ATF, doesn’t understand ATF’s true role in fight crime and criminals.
As for the incident in AR, I wasn’t there, nor was I part of the case, so I, like most others, only know what the media spins out to us.
This will be my last comment on this post. As I said above, I apologize for coming in hard on this issue and continuing on too long. I should have “let it go” but got emotionally involved. I love my guns, hunting and those of similar mindset and will strive to walk away from controversial topics on this forum as this isn’t why I joined. Please accept my apology
Thank you

 

[ThorM465]

Abolish the ATFE! Virtually everything it does is enforce unconstitutional laws and regulations. The 2nd explicitly denies the state the authority to regulate weapons of war. Claiming that the NFA act is Constitutional isn't an opinion, it's delusion.

If you (@gunslinger922 ) think that a predawn raid of an Husband, Father, and man of good standing in his community was warranted as opposed to picking him up on his way to/from work, then you're proof that there is nothing worth saving within the ATFE. Hell, from what we know they most likely could have called the guy and he likely would have turned himself in. Instead he died at the hands of the KGB for daring to protect his home in the middle of the night.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

You know what, you have a valid point and I apologize. I recently retired from ATF and have many friends still working for the Bureau. All are excellent, moral and upstanding agents and investors. For years we have been blamed for the policies and directives of whatever political party was in power. With Biden it was worse than I had ever seen. As with any job, you ride it out knowing the political winds are constantly changing. As for “violating the Constitution” and telling our bosses to f-off” as suggested above, well, it’s not that clear cut. Everyone has their own opinion of when a particular situation rises to the level of “violating the Constitution” in over 20 with ATF, I never felt I violated the constitution. Did I disagree with policy changes, ABSOLUTELY! Was I vocal about it, ABSOLUTELY. Actually, might have told a boss or two, in slightly different words to f-off, ABSOLUTELY. In my opinion, you stay in the fight and stand up for what you feel is right but when it comes to differences (short of violating the constitution, I fall back on what my father always said, the golden rule is, the man with the gold makes the rules” So yes, I stayed and did my job, a job I loved!
ATF has an important role in the regulation of firearms for illegal purposes. Anyone who calls for the abolishment of ATF, doesn’t understand ATF’s true role in fight crime and criminals.
As for the incident in AR, I wasn’t there, nor was I part of the case, so I, like most others, only know what the media spins out to us.
This will be my last comment on this post. As I said above, I apologize for coming in hard on this issue and continuing on too long. I should have “let it go” but got emotionally involved. I love my guns, hunting and those of similar mindset and will strive to walk away from controversial topics on this forum as this isn’t why I joined. Please accept my apology
Thank you

Would've been a lot more constructive had you just lead with this post instead of losing your mind and going off the rails. Acting like that doesn't give people confidence in any type of LE especially feds who have the power to violate some rights and perform punitive raids for reasons other than the law.