New 109 ELDM vs 108 ELDM

[SouthPaw]

Hopefully nobody’s sees my gun and calls me gay in the field this year .

Haha. Did that actually happen to you? I had someone call my rifle super ugly. Must be a Rokstok thing.

 

[Taudisio]

That’s going to be sweet, I would think you’d be north of 3k pretty easily with 109s. That stomps the beans out of damn near anything my 6.5x47 or 6.5 Creed can throw out there. Let me know if you want to try 115 DTAC NR’s too.

Yea, that’s what I was thinking. I’m a touch over book without signs on a saami spec chamber and 2x fired Hornady brass getting 2935fps and 42gr from a 20”. 3k sounds attainable

 

[huntnful]

Haha. Did that actually happen to you? I had someone call my rifle super ugly. Must be a Rokstok thing.

Lmao . Nah totally kidding about it. It’s not gay when you’re stacking bodies .

Understandable about the Rokstok getting called ugly though haha

 

[huntnful]

That’s going to be sweet, I would think you’d be north of 3k pretty easily with 109s. That stomps the beans out of damn near anything my 6.5x47 or 6.5 Creed can throw out there. Let me know if you want to try 115 DTAC NR’s too.

Thank for offering! I’ll keep that in mind if need be!

 

[260284]

My grandson shot his first buck at 253 yards with the 108 at 2940 fps out of a LS Wild 20” 1-7.5 Tikka prefit. He went 30 yards with blood pouring out of his mouth. Lungs were mush. He was a 5-1/2 yr old buck that was a bully on a friends lease. 250+ lbs Recovered the bullet in the cape after we caped the deer.

I shot 4 other deer with the same load and rifle and none went more than 20 yards with lots of internal damage. The two pictures are from a big doe.

 

[Taudisio]

I ordered a second batch of 109’s from GA. There is a measurable difference. Bullet length is the same, but the new batch is averaging .700 base to ogive, where the old batch was .720. They still fit in the magazine at 2.835 vs 2.815 coal and identical CBTO. And .1gr heavier average weight, which shouldn’t matter.
I’m assuming the bc’s are different. I ordered them about a year apart. Guess I’m taking the rifle to the range to verify everything….again. Just when I thought my 6cm was going to be my consistent load and go rifle. I’m curious if anyone else has noticed this.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I ordered a second batch of 109’s from GA. There is a measurable difference. Bullet length is the same, but the new batch is averaging .700 base to ogive, where the old batch was .720. They still fit in the magazine at 2.835 vs 2.815 coal and identical CBTO. And .1gr heavier average weight, which shouldn’t matter.
I’m assuming the bc’s are different. I ordered them about a year apart. Guess I’m taking the rifle to the range to verify everything….again. Just when I thought my 6cm was going to be my consistent load and go rifle. I’m curious if anyone else has noticed this.

I have not but I have not looked either. Now I’m going to have to look. I have two lots that are probably at least a year apart

 

[Taudisio]

Here are photos from both batches

 

[Muley Buck]

I ordered a second batch of 109’s from GA. There is a measurable difference. Bullet length is the same, but the new batch is averaging .700 base to ogive, where the old batch was .720. They still fit in the magazine at 2.835 vs 2.815 coal and identical CBTO. And .1gr heavier average weight, which shouldn’t matter.
I’m assuming the bc’s are different. I ordered them about a year apart. Guess I’m taking the rifle to the range to verify everything….again. Just when I thought my 6cm was going to be my consistent load and go rifle. I’m curious if anyone else has noticed this.

So it's safe to say the new batch's bearing surface is shorter/smaller than the last? Is this the only difference you found? Do you have a picture of both bullets side by side?

 

[Taudisio]

So it's safe to say the new batch's bearing surface is shorter/smaller than the last? Is this the only difference you found? Do you have a picture of both bullets side by side?

Correct, it was noticeable by eye when in the hand. I shot all of the old batch. The new batch doesn’t shoot near as well with my powder charge, and I don’t want to find a new load for 175 bullets then roll the dice with a new batch/bullet. I will be replacing the 109’s with the 107 tmks.

 

[Muley Buck]

Correct, it was noticeable by eye when in the hand. I shot all of the old batch. The new batch doesn’t shoot near as well with my powder charge, and I don’t want to find a new load for 175 bullets then roll the dice with a new batch/bullet. I will be replacing the 109’s with the 107 tmks.

Interesting. When you say shoot better, do you mean group size? Is velocity the same as the old batch? Did you try adjusting seating depth closer since the bearing surface is shorter?
I have some 107 tmks to try but want to also give the 109s a fair shake as well.

 

[Taudisio]

Interesting. When you say shoot better, do you mean group size? Is velocity the same as the old batch? Did you try adjusting seating depth closer since the bearing surface is shorter?
I have some 107 tmks to try but want to also give the 109s a fair shake as well.

I did nothing to my load data. I don’t have the time to fuss with them, especially when I have 500 107’s on my bench. I’ll sell them cheap

 

[Muley Buck]

I did nothing to my load data. I don’t have the time to fuss with them, especially when I have 500 107’s on my bench. I’ll sell them cheap

Sent you a PM.

 

[huntnful]

Correct, it was noticeable by eye when in the hand. I shot all of the old batch. The new batch doesn’t shoot near as well with my powder charge, and I don’t want to find a new load for 175 bullets then roll the dice with a new batch/bullet. I will be replacing the 109’s with the 107 tmks.

This was my experience with 180 ELDM’s as well. I have 4 different lots that measure like 4 different bullets. And 2 lots shot like shit in known well shooting rifles. I eventually gave up hornady all together. I still have a few hundred various ELDM’s that shoot well, but I won’t be buying anymore any time soon.

And I still don’t REALLY know why the other lots shoot like crap. Still a decent looking bullet itself.

 

[Muley Buck]

It is strange for these bullets to have that much difference lot to lot. I really wonder what and why the change is taking place?

 

[HairyScandinavian]

That's terrible variation and really gives me pause. I have 500+ of the 147's now I feel like I have to measure them all lol. Starting to not trust Hornady between this and the factory ammo velocity variations.

 

[BBob]

It is strange for these bullets to have that much difference lot to lot. I really wonder what and why the change is taking place?

Here’s a couple of reasons: Dies wear out and need to be replaced, setups between runs can vary. Berger also does to some extent but it seems they’ve gotten way better at minimizing the changes than in the earlier years. Every bullet manufacturer I’ve ever used has had variances between lots.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Here’s a couple of reasons: Dies wear out and need to be replaced, setups between runs can vary. Berger also does to some extent but it seems they’ve gotten way better at minimizing the changes than in the earlier years. Every bullet manufacturer I’ve ever used has had variances between lots.

Exactly. Some variation between lots happens with all bullets and manufacturers. Exactly how much depends on the tolerances that are allowed before replacing tooling, as well as how drastically and how frequently the manufacturer allows design changes under the same bullet model name/SKU.

Even within the same lot, there can sometimes be small variations in bullet BTO, and I've seen that across all manufacturers.

I haven't seen this much variation in the various models of ELD-M that I've used. I have seen approximately 0.005-0.010" variation in BTO between lots, however.

 

[Taudisio]

Exactly. Some variation between lots happens with all bullets and manufacturers. Exactly how much depends on the tolerances that are allowed before replacing tooling, as well as how drastically and how frequently the manufacturer allows design changes under the same bullet model name/SKU.

Even within the same lot, there can sometimes be small variations in bullet BTO, and I've seen that across all manufacturers.

I haven't seen this much variation in the various models of ELD-M that I've used. I have seen approximately 0.005-0.010" variation in BTO between lots, however.

Bryan Litz did some testing and noted two different bullet variations in one of Hornadys 6.5mm bullets. It’s been years, and I don’t remember specifics, but it was the 140gr or 147gr eldm. I’m sure a google search will show his paper on it.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Bryan Litz did some testing and noted two different bullet variations in one of Hornadys 6.5mm bullets. It’s been years, and I don’t remember specifics, but it was the 140gr or 147gr eldm. I’m sure a google search will show his paper on it.

Yup. This has happened across many bullet models and manufacturers over the years, however, not limited to Hornady nor the 147 ELD-M.