Need advice on a 7mm rifle and scope

[Pharmseller]

I have Tikkas in both 7mm-08 and 7mm Rem Mag.

Let‘s be realistic, here. As others have said, if you’re not shooting farther than 400 yards, you don’t need the mag. Heck, my nephew killed his first bull, a 5x6, at 409 yards with my handloads out of a 7mm-08. And be advised, the difference in recoil is significant.

I killed a bull at 346 yards back when I was still loading 140 grain Partitions in the Mighty -08. He went down so fast I thought I had missed. Regained the sight picture after recoil, no bull. That’s because I knocked him flat.

I don’t take the mag out of the safe much. A 150 grain Eldx at almost 2800 fps does everything I need.




P

 

[KenLee]

I would try and track down a used Steyr Pro Hunter in 7mm Rem Mag. Steyr makes a hell of a rifle that doesn't get much attention over here in the States. I have one and love it. I shoot 162gr ELD-M bullets in ADG brass that @Unknown Munitions loaded for me. Here is a picture of the latest critter to fall to it. 505 yards. One shot and dead in seconds.

View attachment 484946

If your rifle doesn't already have one, try the replacement soft recoil pad from Steyr. It simply snaps on.

 

[f16jack]

The elk don't know what rifle fired the bullet.

I've a 7mm Rem Mag., my daughter has a 7mm-08.
We fire the same bullet, a Berger 180 VLD hunter. That bullet needs 1800 fps for proper expansion.

Careful here - don't confuse the speed (fps) with the energy (ft lbs). They are related (as in E = 1/2 mass x velocity squared), but they are different.

speed = feet per second = fps
energy = foot pounds = ft lbs

Les Bowman, the 7mm Rem mag inventor, felt the impact energy for an elk should be at 1800 ft lbs.
Some feel that 1300 ft lbs is enough for an elk.
Berger focuses more on velocity needed for proper expansion (1800 fps).

Careful here - don't confuse the speed (fps) with the energy (ft lbs). They are related (as in E = 1/2 mass x velocity squared), but they are differt.

Hunting at 9000' (thin air)

• 7mm-08: 2450 fps muzzle ,
  • speed: 1800 fps at 700 yards
  • energy: 1300 ft lbs at 700 yards, 1800 ft lbs at 300 yds.
• 7mm Rem Mag: 2900 fps muzzle
  • speed: 1800 fps at 1000+
  • energy: 1300 ft lbs at 1000+, 1800 ft lbs at 700 yds.

So, shoot a 7mm-08 or a 6.5 Creedmore (they are about the same ballistically), and you limit the energy you deliver downrange. My daughter can hunt elk just fine with her 7mm-08 (and she has). I've shot a couple of elk at 400+, but I've 17 or so less than 350 yards. The 7mm-08 (or 6.5 Creemore, or 270 Win) would have been fine for any of those 17 elk.

6 of 7 of us in my elk camp use 7mm Rem Mag. We reload, we know where they shoot, and they kill elk.
One guy has a 300 Win Mag.

If I hunted routinely in an area that was full of big bears (like coastal Alaska) I'd have a 300+ cal rifle. You can put much heavier bullets in it and it might save your life. But for the lower 48, firepower like that works, but is not necessary.

I've come across some hunters with very powerful military style weapons for elk (specifically 2 guys in different years with .338 Lapua's). Too heavy, waste of money, inappropriate. It will kill the elk, but so will an anti-tank round. The Lapua has 4700 ft lbs at the muzzle. Take that, shoulder (I'm talking about my shoulder, not the elk's).

 

[BjornF16]

The elk don't know what rifle fired the bullet.

I've a 7mm Rem Mag., my daughter has a 7mm-08.
We fire the same bullet, a Berger 180 VLD hunter. That bullet needs 1800 fps for proper expansion.

Careful here - don't confuse the speed (fps) with the energy (ft lbs). They are related (as in E = 1/2 mass x velocity squared), but they are different.

speed = feet per second = fps
energy = foot pounds = ft lbs

Les Bowman, the 7mm Rem mag inventor, felt the impact energy for an elk should be at 1800 ft lbs.
Some feel that 1300 ft lbs is enough for an elk.
Berger focuses more on velocity needed for proper expansion (1800 fps).

Careful here - don't confuse the speed (fps) with the energy (ft lbs). They are related (as in E = 1/2 mass x velocity squared), but they are differt.

Hunting at 9000' (thin air)

• 7mm-08: 2450 fps muzzle ,
  • speed: 1800 fps at 700 yards
  • energy: 1300 ft lbs at 700 yards, 1800 ft lbs at 300 yds.
• 7mm Rem Mag: 2900 fps muzzle
  • speed: 1800 fps at 1000+
  • energy: 1300 ft lbs at 1000+, 1800 ft lbs at 700 yds.

So, shoot a 7mm-08 or a 6.5 Creedmore (they are about the same ballistically), and you limit the energy you deliver downrange. My daughter can hunt elk just fine with her 7mm-08 (and she has). I've shot a couple of elk at 400+, but I've 17 or so less than 350 yards. The 7mm-08 (or 6.5 Creemore, or 270 Win) would have been fine for any of those 17 elk.

6 of 7 of us in my elk camp use 7mm Rem Mag. We reload, we know where they shoot, and they kill elk.
One guy has a 300 Win Mag.

If I hunted routinely in an area that was full of big bears (like coastal Alaska) I'd have a 300+ cal rifle. You can put much heavier bullets in it and it might save your life. But for the lower 48, firepower like that works, but is not necessary.

I've come across some hunters with very powerful military style weapons for elk (specifically 2 guys in different years with .338 Lapua's). Too heavy, waste of money, inappropriate. It will kill the elk, but so will an anti-tank round. The Lapua has 4700 ft lbs at the muzzle. Take that, shoulder (I'm talking about my shoulder, not the elk's).

How exactly does energy kill?

Maybe take a look at this thread:

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[f16jack]

Good thread. Here's an interesting article on mechanisms of damage: https://www.everydaymarksman.co/marksmanship/terminal-ballistics/

 

[BjornF16]

Good thread. Here's an interesting article on mechanisms of damage: https://www.everydaymarksman.co/marksmanship/terminal-ballistics/

So you acknowledge, energy doesn't play a role?

Terminal Ballistics Myths​

To start, Dr. Fackler emphasizes that there are only two mechanisms for wounding:

• Temporary cavitation: tissue stretched and temporarily displaced (as proposed by Theodor Koch)
• Permanent wound channel: tissue cut and crushed as the bullet passes

According to Dr. Fackler’s work, the theory of kinetic energy transfer is wrong. At worst it is totally irrelevant, at best it is an inconsistent wounding method and should not be relied upon.

 

[f16jack]

It would be a long stretch to say energy doesn't play a role. In the article it states: "If both fragmentation and cavitation occur, you make the permanent wound channel much more intense."
Higher energy results in larger cavitation. Cavitation by itself seems to have limited impact, but coupled with fragmentation is lethal. I'd rather my Bergers hit with more energy than less energy to maximize the effect.
A high energy FMJ bullet (small wound channel, no fragmentation) may have large cavitation, but generally will create a small wound that may heal if nothing vital hit. Change to a deforming or fragmenting bullet and the lethality increases.