Need advice. Land in Lincoln county MT?

[Pony Soldier]

Surface water rights have to be pre- existing from when they were available. The water right is a water use right which forces you to have to use it and keep records. Periodically the are water court hearings that adjudicate those rights.

Mineral rights can be important but minerals don't exist everywhere. Some valleys have thousands of feet of gravel. I'm pretty sure that gravel goes with the surface owner as well as topsoil.

 

[Legend]

Do they get into mischief a lot? Can you get depredation tags in Montana, how about putting them into a corral and charge people to see them?

I think the only legal take right now us a roadkill permit. But make sure it is not a person

Montana Man Killed During Bigfoot Hoax

Get breaking national and world news, broadcast video coverage, and exclusive interviews. Find the top news online at ABC news.

abcnews.go.com

Now is the time to start drafting a bill if you want MT legislature to adopt hunting regs for em.

Sorry for the sidetrack OP.

 

[moab]

Right on Brother! Small community of ours.

Is there any way I can msg you? How long before you're allowed to pm? I've been posting and reading for a week. But it's hard with the time limit placed on follow up posts. And I type fast. Lol!

 

[moab]

Surface water rights have to be pre- existing from when they were available. The water right is a water use right which forces you to have to use it and keep records. Periodically the are water court hearings that adjudicate those rights.

Mineral rights can be important but minerals don't exist everywhere. Some valleys have thousands of feet of gravel. I'm pretty sure that gravel goes with the surface owner as well as topsoil.

So the danger of some upstream entity draining a creek dry that might run through my property is minimal?

 

[Pony Soldier]

If they haven't been doing it - it is unlikely they will start now.

 

[handwerk]

Are you setting yourself up to a 1031 exchange when you do sell/move?

 

[moab]

Are you setting yourself up to a 1031 exchange when you do sell/move?

No.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

Card carrying member of the Libby mafia here.

It was a good place to be a kid. Great outdoor activities close by. We could hunt/fish/trap/go to the lake. We’d stash our Key Ice in a culvert in Rainy Cr… aka, the creek right smack dab in the middle of the now fenced off superfund site.

There were 2 pretty good pieces of advice above. Do not buy unseen no matter what. And yes, spend some time there between Nov and March, it ain’t for everyone. July thru October is beautiful.

 

[moab]

Card carrying member of the Libby mafia here.

It was a good place to be a kid. Great outdoor activities close by. We could hunt/fish/trap/go to the lake. We’d stash our Key Ice in a culvert in Rainy Cr… aka, the creek right smack dab in the middle of the now fenced off superfund site.

There were 2 pretty good pieces of advice above. Do not buy unseen no matter what. And yes, spend some time there between Nov and March, it ain’t for everyone. July thru October is beautiful.

It sounds like things might have changed since you were a kid?

I am definitely not only going to look at properties in person. But my wife and I are going to rent there for at least 6 months. Before making a final decision. I grew up in snow in the mountains far north of Seattle. And in central WA. As well as two winters up in Colville near the border. We had 25 acres up in the mountains quite a ways from town. But I know Lincoln county can have severe winters. The coldest one I lived through was -18F.

I'm more concerned about finding the right local contractors to work with. The more I research the more I see buying raw land. As the most economical option. So building a road is something I have no experience in. And it would need to accommodate a modular home being transported on it.

But hopefully through advice from my cousin and her husband (they have lived there almost their entire lives. And are seniors now.) I can find people to work with.

I don't want to be inaccessible. But I also don't want to move that rural and end up in a neighborhood or with close neighbors. Seems to defeat the purpose to me. I could have purchased my grandparents place in the Cascades. But it was an old enclave at the foot of a mountain. On 2 to 5 acre plots. It was near all the great trails and mountains in the Mt. Baker wilderness. But it still felt like living in a suburb or at least a neighborhood to me. So I passed.

At the same time I don't want to overestimate my snow removal abilities. I'd like to be at least at the end of a road or long driveway. I just assume I will need a dedicated truck with snow plow. Or tractor. The latter makes more sense. So I feel like I'm being realistic. But want to see it for myself. Meaning an actual road or where one might be put in. And how difficult that snow removal and 4x4 travel might be. I'll be relying on my cousins family for advice. But I'm all ears.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

It sounds like things might have changed since you were a kid?

I am definitely not only going to look at properties in person. But my wife and I are going to rent there for at least 6 months. Before making a final decision. I grew up in snow in the mountains far north of Seattle. And in central WA. As well as two winters up in Colville near the border. We had 25 acres up in the mountains quite a ways from town. But I know Lincoln county can have severe winters. The coldest one I lived through was -18F.

I'm more concerned about finding the right local contractors to work with. The more I research the more I see buying raw land. As the most economical option. So building a road is something I have no experience in. And it would need to accommodate a modular home being transported on it.

But hopefully through advice from my cousin and her husband (they have lived there almost their entire lives. And are seniors now.) I can find people to work with.

I don't want to be inaccessible. But I also don't want to move that rural and end up in a neighborhood or with close neighbors. Seems to defeat the purpose to me. I could have purchased my grandparents place in the Cascades. But it was an old enclave at the foot of a mountain. On 2 to 5 acre plots. It was near all the great trails and mountains in the Mt. Baker wilderness. But it still felt like living in a suburb or at least a neighborhood to me. So I passed.

At the same time I don't want to overestimate my snow removal abilities. I'd like to be at least at the end of a road or long driveway. I just assume I will need a dedicated truck with snow plow. Or tractor. The latter makes more sense. So I feel like I'm being realistic. But want to see it for myself. Meaning an actual road or where one might be put in. And how difficult that snow removal and 4x4 travel might be. I'll be relying on my cousins family for advice. But I'm all ears.

Has Libby changed? Sure. The percentage of out of state retirees has definitely increased, especially when the Plum Cr ground was subdivided and sold. But on the other hand, Libby will always be Libby, and for a lot of the locals, it’s kind of frozen in time. Mullets are back in style.

It was a great place to grow up and the country is beautiful, knarly and will break you at times. Elk and mule deer hunting around there has definitely changed for the worst. WT and bear… no shortage of opportunities there. Don’t believe the hype that the Cabinet-Yaak only has a few grizzlies either. If you fish, whether that be river, lake, stream, or hiking into mountain lakes, there is a ton.

If you’re from the Colville area, the fog and gloom won’t shock you like other folks. Snow removal is a valid concern and you have to have a plan. Fire mitigation assessment and implementation is another must. Another problem is no different than anywhere… you drive by 3 absolute piece of shit compounds with old junk cars and chicken coops everywhere just to get to your beautiful house at the end of the road.

I can’t speak to rentals for 6mos, but the strategy of taking some time to figure out the community, check out potential property in different areas, etc. is smart. Good luck.

 

[moab]

What about HOA's? I see a lot of properties with fairly low HOA fees. And some list things like road maintenance. Which obviously no one would mind. But what other powers can they have or are they limited? HOA nightmares are everywhere. I'm just wondering if that's a valid concern? Should I avoid them?

We're not talking sundivisions. More like large tracts that have been broken up into 20 acres lots.

 

[moab]

Has Libby changed? Sure. The percentage of out of state retirees has definitely increased, especially when the Plum Cr ground was subdivided and sold. But on the other hand, Libby will always be Libby, and for a lot of the locals, it’s kind of frozen in time. Mullets are back in style.

It was a great place to grow up and the country is beautiful, knarly and will break you at times. Elk and mule deer hunting around there has definitely changed for the worst. WT and bear… no shortage of opportunities there. Don’t believe the hype that the Cabinet-Yaak only has a few grizzlies either. If you fish, whether that be river, lake, stream, or hiking into mountain lakes, there is a ton.

If you’re from the Colville area, the fog and gloom won’t shock you like other folks. Snow removal is a valid concern and you have to have a plan. Fire mitigation assessment and implementation is another must. Another problem is no different than anywhere… you drive by 3 absolute piece of shit compounds with old junk cars and chicken coops everywhere just to get to your beautiful house at the end of the road.

I can’t speak to rentals for 6mos, but the strategy of taking some time to figure out the community, check out potential property in different areas, etc. is smart. Good luck.

That all sounds very reasonable.

I know what you mean about a property full of junk cars etc. Many in Colville. Hell all over rural areas for that matter.

And I'm not hoping for a pristine compound with a drive thru a country club. I just want to be able to shoot my guns on my own property. Without a neighbor complaining. Or have any traffic regularly driving by.

I would like a gate with a lock though.

How far do you have to go for Elk or Mule deer?

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I make a pretty good wage. You must do waaaaaay better than me if you're trolling for 20-40 acre chunks. Even in Lincoln Co...if it buts public land and has any access.....I would think that's $220,000 minimum.

I do own a chunk in Lincoln Co. And it's bordered by USFS on two sides. I can walk to British Columbia without crossing pavement.

I don't think there are any more "rare" gems in the West. Once Starlink hit....even dinky, remote chunks of land can be lived on with a few solar panels.

I think even crappy 40 acre lots of standing timber and limited access will be close to $500,000. If you have it, or at least 50% of it.....go You. You're in the game. Think land loans will want 50% cash down and the rates are worse than traditional 30 year

Troy is a Hole and more affordable than Libby. Bull Lake road is more spendy than Libby. Up Pipe Creek and 508 there are some chunks possibly. But it's neither Free nor Undiscovered.

And it's going to be more grey and dreary up there than Colville. Just saying.

Neither Mule Deer or Elk are terribly common in that region. Tons of WT. Most will be better than Colville. Way less bears than Colville also.

Without knowing your budget, I am thinking you'll need to really lower your expectations. Most of us are looking for chunks that but Public land and seek seclusion. Like prime hunting spots.....if it's that good...probably bank on others knowing about it.

 

[Amos Keeto]

Not legal advice, but on the mineral rights question, yes, if the property has mineral rights that belong to someone, and you don't buy the mineral rights, the owner of the mineral rights will be able to come on your property and use the surface as reasonably necessary to exercise the rights associated with the mineral rights, including exploring, extracting, etc. Each state differs on the extent to which the mineral-rights owner must accomodate the surface-right owner. Reserved mineral rights should come up on title. If they do, you'll want to get a Montana lawyer to explain the implications.

LOL!
My family, both inlaws and blood kin, have "mineral rights" on 4 different properties.
Only once has anybody contacted relatives in regards to drilling and producing oil.
I had a great uncle who was a Texas State Appellate court Judge. He retired back in the 1940's. After retiring, he and several others invested in some properties. They held the mineral rights and sold the property.

He and his wife had no children, but he had 15 (fifteen) brothers and sisters. My maternal grandmother was one of those 15.
Since there were no children, Uncle Crom left his mineral rights, equally, to his brothers and sisters!
I'll bet there are about a bazillion kinfolks out there since he died in the early 50's!
With that many relatives, maybe my share would buy me a pound of powder or a box of ammo!

The wife and me are aware of siesmagraph testing that has occurred on the other three properties. Ain't nobody pounding on our door looking to start drilling holes!

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

That all sounds very reasonable.

I know what you mean about a property full of junk cars etc. Many in Colville. Hell all over rural areas for that matter.

And I'm not hoping for a pristine compound with a drive thru a country club. I just want to be able to shoot my guns on my own property. Without a neighbor complaining. Or have any traffic regularly driving by.

I would like a gate with a lock though.

How far do you have to go for Elk or Mule deer?

Hmm. “How far do you have to go for Elk or Mule deer?” That answer could be debated and/or is already getting debated on another thread.

Here are some thoughts…
If you put time in, know the country and don’t mind being miserable, you can kill both around Libby. It’s not debatable that the numbers are down from the 90s/00s though. There are still local dudes that find a bull and a good mulie locally each year.

However, most Libbyites go to Dillon for elk and E MT for antelope/deer. It’s fact that CWD is in Libby from dipshits bringing back deer from CWD areas and dumping the carcasses. Yeah, CWD didn’t immaculately concept itself in the city of Libby. The locals can claim 100% of that one.

Then, can you branch out a few hours and find some better hunting? Yeah, but again, it’s thick timber hunting with burns and brush fields intermixed.

Comments above are correct about price and the fact that there are no unicorn, undiscovered treasures left out there. If you find one, you better have boo koo dinero. Depending on what you’re looking for though, Libby is still a cool spot to have a little house in the woods.

 

[Billinsd]

How’s Libby compared to Sand Point? My dad really liked Sand Point, we spent a lot of time there and looked at moving and houses in late 70’s. My dad was going to continue working in Newport Beach and fly his plane home for the weekend. I was in, my mom was positivity not.

 

[Team4LongGun]

Hmm. “How far do you have to go for Elk or Mule deer?” That answer could be debated and/or is already getting debated on another thread.

Here are some thoughts…
If you put time in, know the country and don’t mind being miserable, you can kill both around Libby. It’s not debatable that the numbers are down from the 90s/00s though. There are still local dudes that find a bull and a good mulie locally each year.

However, most Libbyites go to Dillon for elk and E MT for antelope/deer. It’s fact that CWD is in Libby from dipshits bringing back deer from CWD areas and dumping the carcasses. Yeah, CWD didn’t immaculately concept itself in the city of Libby. The locals can claim 100% of that one.

Then, can you branch out a few hours and find some better hunting? Yeah, but again, it’s thick timber hunting with burns and brush fields intermixed.

Comments above are correct about price and the fact that there are no unicorn, undiscovered treasures left out there. If you find one, you better have boo koo dinero. Depending on what you’re looking for though, Libby is still a cool spot to have a little house in the woods.

This dude is speaking gems and nailing it.

 

[P Carter]

LOL!
My family, both inlaws and blood kin, have "mineral rights" on 4 different properties.
Only once has anybody contacted relatives in regards to drilling and producing oil.
I had a great uncle who was a Texas State Appellate court Judge. He retired back in the 1940's. After retiring, he and several others invested in some properties. They held the mineral rights and sold the property.

He and his wife had no children, but he had 15 (fifteen) brothers and sisters. My maternal grandmother was one of those 15.
Since there were no children, Uncle Crom left his mineral rights, equally, to his brothers and sisters!
I'll bet there are about a bazillion kinfolks out there since he died in the early 50's!
With that many relatives, maybe my share would buy me a pound of powder or a box of ammo!

The wife and me are aware of siesmagraph testing that has occurred on the other three properties. Ain't nobody pounding on our door looking to start drilling holes!

Yup, all part of the fun of severed mineral estates. Inevitably half the people die without a will so you trace 1/32nd of a share to grandpa Joe’s half-niece or whatever. Often it’s more a theoretical than a real threat. But I have had companies send a letter and say they’re going to drill; most of the time they can’t even trace the rights they claim they are exercising.

 

[moab]

I make a pretty good wage. You must do waaaaaay better than me if you're trolling for 20-40 acre chunks. Even in Lincoln Co...if it buts public land and has any access.....I would think that's $220,000 minimum.

I'm older. Came from next to nothing. We hunted or trapped for what we ate. Or what we needed. My family worked in the woods in one way or another. No one was getting rich. I left and joined the Marine Corps. Then spent some decades back and forth growing a couple businesses. And sold them. I'm not rich. But I did ok. Better than my old man. But sometimes I wonder. He spent his entire life in the woods. I've spent maybe half of mine. I think he won.

To buy an old 40s era house (In town. Nothing special.) in my town of 800 people. Nothing special. Just a logging town. Costs $500,000. Out of town with any acreage is worse. And this is a good 2 hours up into the mountains. Nothing left but Forest Service roads.

As beautiful as it is I can't see myself living with neighbors any longer. In a crappy old house. In a state that wants to take all my rights away. The least of which are my gun rights. So $220,000 for 20 acres and a mobile home. Seems a lot better than living in an 80 yr old house next to someone else. In the middle of town. Worrying all the time that your going to disturb or offend someone.

I don't have any illusions of finding a "gem". The price of everything is insane to me now. I could have bought that $500,000 house for $100,000 20 yrs ago or so. I would have never thought I'd be priced out of a place with the states crappiest schools. That no one wanted to live in.

I don't know what I might settle on in Lincoln county. But at least it's not in town. At least it's not neighbors right next door. But the sad reality is you either overpay for a crappy house with crappy neighbors in a crappy town. Or you overpay - far from family - and what you've known. To at least have peace.

I don't want to bother anyone. But most of all I just don't want to be bothered. I hope I might find that in MT.

Troy is a Hole and more affordable than Libby. Bull Lake road is more spendy than Libby. Up Pipe Creek and 508 there are some chunks possibly. But it's neither Free nor Undiscovered.

And it's going to be more grey and dreary up there than Colville. Just saying.

I appreciate your honesty. And that actually helps a great deal. I don't mind grey and dreary. I'm from the Cascades. We may have been one of the inventors of that. Lol. Rain is a sound you grow up falling asleep to. If you're fortunate enough to have a cheap corrugated aluminum roof.

Local knowledge is so valuable. And obviously I have very little of it. I thank you for your incite.

When you say "Troy is a hole" do you mean the town itself or the surrounding area too?

Neither Mule Deer or Elk are terribly common in that region. Tons of WT. Most will be better than Colville. Way less bears than Colville also.

Without knowing your budget, I am thinking you'll need to really lower your expectations. Most of us are looking for chunks that but Public land and seek seclusion. Like prime hunting spots.....if it's that good...probably bank on others knowing about it.

By the look of prices going back just 5 years. I'd say everyone knows about it. But for me it's as much about the actual land. As it is about how much you're left alone. You have no idea how stifling being even a few hours from a big city is these days. I don't really need a mansion on the lake with Elk walking by that I can shoot out of my kitchen window. I just need some solitude.

 

[moab]

Libby is still a cool spot to have a little house in the woods.

That's all I'm hoping for. Nothing more. Just trying not to make a mistake. And end up in a bad spot. Regretting taking such a big risk.