Neck Bushing Sizing

[buffybr]

...Any help clearing things up would be appreciated as I am clearly confused; or perhaps over thinking everything...

In my almost 60 years of reloading, I never thought it was this complicated.

 

[JollyRogers]

In my almost 60 years of reloading, I never thought it was this complicated.

Thank you for the very helpful contribution

 

[buffybr]

Thank you for the very helpful contribution

You're welcome!

 

[leclairk]

In my almost 60 years of reloading, I never thought it was this complicated.

Probably because you were never concerned with making accurate rounds.

 

[buffybr]

Probably because you were never concerned with making accurate rounds.

No, it depends on what level of accuracy you will accept.

I would bet that the vast majority of people who reload their own rifle or pistol ammunition buy a 2 or 3 set of dies from RCBS or Hornady or anyone else, try maybe several different powders and several different bullets and that is the extent of their reloading.

I was at a range once where the 2 guys at the bench next to me picked out a rock somewhere beyond the 100 yd target frame, each took a couple of shots at the rock, then I heard one of them say "thats good enough for deer hunting", and they left. That's way below the level of accuracy that I will accept.

I heard once that Competition Match shooters weigh and sort all of their cases and bullets. Winning groups for these guys are 10 shot groups measured in fractions of an inch. That's a higher level of accuracy that I am willing to put the time and money into achieving.

I like to shoot, but I'm primarily a hunter that pretty much have limited my shots at big game animals to about 350 yards. The accuracy level that I strive for and have acheived with my hunting rifles is 3 shot moa groups at 100 yds, and often out to 300 yds.

Some people say you should shoot 5 shot groups, others say 10 shot groups. But to me your first shot at an animal is the most important one, and any after your 3rd shot are just Hail Mary's.

All of my rifles are off the shelf hunting rifles, although I have made or altered the stocks on most of them. I've glass and pillar bedded the actions, free floated the barrels, and have changed their length of pull to 14", to fit me.

At one time early in my reloading days, I weighed and sorted my .30-06 rifle cases. Now I just sort all of my rifle cases (except .223) by headstamp. I used to hand weigh all of my rifle powder charges to 1/10th of a grain. Now I weigh all of my rifle powder charges (except .223 and .308) on an RCBS electronic scale. I load my .223 and .308 cases on a Dillon progressive and through their powder charges and still get moa accuracy.

I wash and tumble clean all of my cases after each firing, measure and trim if needed before reloading, and anneal all of my rifle cases after each 3rd firing. For sizing cases, I've Full Length sized, Partial FL sized, Neck sized, and collet neck sized cases.

As a reloader, I am concerned with accuracy and that my reloading is above the level of the guy who just buys a set of dies, some powder, bullets, and primers then cranks some loaded cartridges out, but I'm below the competiton shooters that strive for one hole groups.

For most of my hunting rifles, I reload premium bullets for hunting and standard cup and core bullets for practice. Here's a 100 yd target, off the bench, with my .300 Weatherby. First shot, from a cold barrel, is the one in the center from a Hornady 168gr HPBT practice load, and without changing scope settings, the next 2 shots were touching with 180 gr Barnes TTSX bullets.

And this is 2 shots for "check the zero" in an old alluminum fry pan at moose camp in Alberta last year with my .300 Wby and 180 gr TTSX bullets shooting prone off my day pack at 169 yards.

 

[JollyRogers]

So to get this thread back on topic since it seems to have gathered some unnecessary fluff…

I took the following advice:

Stop pissing around attempting to measure neck wall thickness. Squish the bullet in the brass and measure. Subtract at minimum .003" and be ready for disappointment.

Chamfered and deburred the necks, and squished the 150gn ELD-X into the new unsized starline brass. The result was a neck diameter of 0.3110”…subtracting .003” results in…you guessed it…a 0.308” neck bushing.

So in the end the math matched reality…once I took the advice from Starline and used the proper tools/process. Turning off the engineer/math nerd brain and just going for it sometimes is the way to go.

Going to adjust seating depth to mag length then should be ready to actually load some non-dummy rounds.

 

[Castle Rock]

I had an extremely accurate tikka708 that just wouldn’t shoot the 150 ELDM

 

[JollyRogers]

I had an extremely accurate tikka708 that just wouldn’t shoot the 150 ELDM

Mine shoots factory 150 ELD-X’s the best. I’ve got 140 accubonds and 162 ELD-X to try as well. Haven’t tried ELD-M’s in it.

 

[buffybr]

This is exactly the stage I am in; trying to consume and understand a ton of information. In hindsight I should have bought a regular (non bushing) FL die to start as I did not realize the added complication a bushing die would introduce.

I do appreciate everyone’s input and follow ups.

and...

...So in the end the math matched reality…once I took the advice from Starline and used the proper tools/process. Turning off the engineer/math nerd brain and just going for it sometimes is the way to go.

Going to adjust seating depth to mag length then should be ready to actually load some non-dummy rounds.

...Any help clearing things up would be appreciated as I am clearly confused; or perhaps over thinking everything...

Isn't this about what I said in my first reply post?

In my almost 60 years of reloading, I never thought it was this complicated.

So all "unnecessary fluff" aside...
I just went back and re-read this entire thread, some posts several times, and

...Stop pissing around attempting to measure neck wall thickness. Squish the bullet in the brass and measure. Subtract at minimum .003" and be ready for disappointment.

I have no idea how to "squish the bullet in the brass" and what do you measure?
I'm old school, does squishing the bullet in the brass mean seating the bullet in the case, and then do you measure the diameter of the case neck with the seated bullet in it?

My practice rounds for my .308 Vanguard are Hornady brass and Hornady 155 gr HPBT bullets. I have some boxes of these cartridges loaded with the cases being sized with standard RCBS FL sizing dies set to Partially resize the cases by puting a 0.029" washer between the adjusted FL size die and the loading press (a practice that I have been doing for over 40 years), and some cartridges sized with a Lee collet neck size die.

I took ramdon cartridges out of each box and measured the diameters of the case necks with a micrometer, not a caliper, and they all measured 0.3135". There was no difference in the diameters of the case necks between the cases sized by Partial FL sizing and cases sized with a Lee Collet neck size die.

So if I'm reading this thread right, my Hornady cases with a seated bullet with a neck diameter of 0.3135" have slightly thicker neck brass than JollyRogers' Starline cases are with a 0.3110" neck diameter.

And changing neck bushing sizes is an attempt to tweak more accuracy by adjusting the neck tension on the bullet, which will have to be verified at the range.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I have no idea how to "squish the bullet in the brass" and what do you measure?
I'm old school, does squishing the bullet in the brass mean seating the bullet in the case, and then do you measure the diameter of the case neck with the seated bullet in it?

Yes. Then subtract .003" or more from that diameter when choosing a bushing.

And changing neck bushing sizes is an attempt to tweak more accuracy by adjusting the neck tension on the bullet, which will have to be verified at the range.

Typically doesn't have much of an effect as people think and yes, would have to be verified at range with a large sample size.