National red flag law

[bobinmi]

Its an easy button. We all know its an easy button. It won't do anything, but those who are not in favor of liberty will cheer it on. No one wants to talk about the absolute fact that social media has killed far more people than guns. Want to save young lives? Keep kids off of social media altogether. I think SM is, to modern society, what small pox was to the Native Americans. We didn't evolve with it, we aren't ready for it, and it might constitute the end of civilization as we know it.

 

[norcan]

Its laughable that this is never brought up with all the shootings in Chicago, new York, California. No one cries for all the babies killed by abortion every day.
Or the root cause of all of these fatherless nut jobs from broken families committing these crimes. I dont think society really understands the damage that happens to these boys from not having a father or even a father figure in their life. You know to show them how to be a man and father. Sad place this world has become.

One problem with that is that the same people who blame everything on single-parent households also tend to support a reactionary judicial system that metes out lengthy prison sentences to would-be fathers for minor non-crimes like weed possession.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

One problem with that is that the same people who blame everything on single-parent households also tend to support a reactionary judicial system that metes out lengthy prison sentences to would-be fathers for minor non-crimes like weed possession.

You're kidding right? Guy burglarized a buddy's aunt's house, turns out he's on the hook for over 100 burglaries, got 2 out of a possible max 5 years for 100+. All the early release for violent felons in the news, nothing but slaps on the wrist. This whole "judicial system lengthy sentence" thing is tired and wrong. I agree with you on the weed possession, and guess what nobody around here gets more than a citation for it so save the grandstanding.

 

[accountantsanonymous]

Boy, we're going to need a lot more electric chairs, bigger prisons, and a much bigger army. You've got lot of killing and imprisoning to do.

I’ve seen some pretty radical ideas on the internet lately, but that one’s a front runner for the next episode of Handmaid’s Tale.

 

[norcan]

Death penalty for drug dealers.

I got news for you, friend:

The war on drugs is over. Drugs won.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Here is a few links of people gunned down in their homes from thug cops enforcing red flag orders and a no knock when no crime was committed.

That is equally tragic and highlights an obvious problem with how we police. It is a separate issue and a bit of a red herring argument. Same thing could have happened during a small marijuana bust.

Crooked cops, pissed off ex's, mad family members, that neighbor you got in a argument with last month would never ever report they thought you were a scary person right?

This is definitely a solid point and why red flag accusations should be thoroughly researched before any action is taken. I have the same exact concern. It could be weaponized. There should be some very steep penalties for accusations that are baseless.

 

[gabenzeke]

That is equally tragic and highlights an obvious problem with how we police. It is a separate issue and a bit of a red herring argument. Same thing could have happened during a small marijuana bust.

This is definitely a solid point and why red flag accusations should be thoroughly researched before any action is taken. I have the same exact concern. It could be weaponized. There should be some very steep penalties for accusations that are baseless.

Correction: it WILL be weaponized.

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[Wyobohunter]

Correction: it WILL be weaponized.

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Yes. I agree, some garbage people will try to use it that way. I’m in favor only if there is some pretty compelling evidence that a person is an actual threat. Also only if penalties for false accusations are very prohibitive.

 

[CorbLand]

Yes. I agree, some garbage people will try to use it that way. I’m in favor only if there is some pretty compelling evidence that a person is an actual threat. Also only if penalties for false accusations are very prohibitive.

It will start out as being that way and evolve to be more and more restrictive. It is the way all laws work and evolve over time. Start slow, get it started and add to it time and time again. Its why me and so many people are against laws like this.

A couple months ago someone called the cops on me for suspicious activity. I was working on my own pickup, in front of my own apartment. They sent two cops. Later found out it wasn't even someone in my apartment complex, it was a friend that was dropping something off. If people are that paranoid, you don't think that red flag laws will be abused? Even with equal punishment for false allegations...we cant even get those for rape cases. Give me a break.

Thoroughly investigated is literally the direct opposite of what a red flag law is designed to do. They are designed to get guns out of peoples hands that may pose a threat. How do you thoroughly investigate something quick enough to do that?

 

[Crowmangler]

Crooked cops, pissed off ex's, mad family members, that neighbor you got in a argument with last month would never ever report they thought you were a scary person right?

I'll take dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery any day.

PREACH

 

[Moserkr]

I got news for you, friend:

The war on drugs is over. Drugs won.

News flash: war aint over yet. Nice guys are gonna get benched and the clown show is coming to an end.

For the record, im not referring to a small time pot dealer - reference is to the hard drug dealers in large quantities with cartel/mob connections. Its a war, we need to start acting like we are in it to win.

Red flag laws are already highly weaponized. Those in support of it must not read very well because the language in them is always very vague, meant to be abused, and is 100% unconstitutional. Its literally the thought police. Thank god the ministry of truth will tell people what to think!! Maybe joey can sputter out a coherent sentence for me.

 

[Wyobohunter]

It will start out as being that way and evolve to more and more restrictive. It is the way all laws work and evolve over time. Start slow, get it started and add to it time and time again. Its why me and so many people are against laws like this.

A couple months ago someone called the cops on me for suspicious activity. I was working on my own pickup, in front of my own apartment. They sent two cops. Later found out it wasn't even someone in my apartment complex, it was a friend that was dropping something off. If people are that paranoid, you don't think that red flag laws will be abused?

I didn’t say I don’t think people will abuse them. Read my post again.

Cops and judges should go into any citizen type report knowing it could be bogus.

Just this afternoon I went for a dirt road motorcycle ride to the next town over (see pic in “one pic a day” thread). I always bring a firearm, mostly for the occasional plinking session. it’s usually not visible until I take my jacket off as it’s in a chest rig. After getting into town I rode to a little taco place to have lunch. Two girls with Massachusetts plates came in and were giving me odd sideways glances as I wasn’t wearing my jacket while eating. When they left one of them tried to secretly snap a picture. I said nothing, no bother to me. I’d not be surprised if they called the cops. Maybe they wanted to post “weird Wyoming Trump guy” on their social media page. I’ll never know. Things are different here compared to Massachusetts. I don’t expect that every time someone calls the police for no good reason (assuming they actually did) it would go like that. It’s just a counter example. Admittedly not a very strong one.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I didn’t say I don’t think people will abuse them. Read my post again.

Cops and judges should go into any citizen type report knowing it could be bogus.

Just this afternoon I went for a dirt road motorcycle ride to the next town over. I always bring a firearm, mostly for the occasional plinking session. it’s usually not visible until I take my jacket off as it’s in a chest rig. After getting into town I rode to a little taco place to have lunch. Two girls with Massachusetts plates came in and were giving me odd sideways glances as I wasn’t wearing my jacket while eating. When they left one of them tried to secretly snap a picture. I said nothing, no bother to me. I’d not be surprised if they called the cops. Maybe they wanted to post “weird Wyoming Trump guy” on their social media page. I’ll never know. Things are different here compared to Massachusetts.

You trust activist judges to be objective?

 

[Wyobohunter]

You trust activist judges to be objective?

I trust no one to be objective. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have laws and safety measures.

 

[CorbLand]

I didn’t say I don’t think people will abuse them. Read my post again.

Cops and judges should go into any citizen type report knowing it could be bogus.

Just this afternoon I went for a dirt road motorcycle ride to the next town over (see pic in “one pic a day” thread). I always bring a firearm, mostly for the occasional plinking session. it’s usually not visible until I take my jacket off as it’s in a chest rig. After getting into town I rode to a little taco place to have lunch. Two girls with Massachusetts plates came in and were giving me odd sideways glances as I wasn’t wearing my jacket while eating. When they left one of them tried to secretly snap a picture. I said nothing, no bother to me. I’d not be surprised if they called the cops. Maybe they wanted to post “weird Wyoming Trump guy” on their social media page. I’ll never know. Things are different here compared to Massachusetts.

Put a red flag law in place and you wouldnt have to wonder whether or not they called the cops on you. Just like a friend of neighbor calling the cops on me because I was checking to make sure my hood was latched after having spent the last hour working on my pickup. She saw 15 seconds of 60 minutes and decided that I was suspicious. Now take that exact same scenario and add "gun" into the mix. I live in small town, northern Utah and this still happened.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I trust no one to be objective. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have laws and safety measures.

I understand what you're saying, but when a judge is the only one between abusing the red flag law that's far too risky. There would need to be a ton more checks and balances to make the level of abuse fall below an acceptable threshold.

 

[Wyobohunter]

There are already red flag laws at the state level in many places. Add to that that the police can “store your firearms for you” without due process everywhere. It’s a real thing. I really don’t see much changing either way and I can’t say I’m strongly in favor of a federal law. I can’t say I’m strongly against it either.

 

[Wags]

We don't have "enforcement" of most Laws now. If you think there will be a sanction for anyone filing a false complaint against someone under a "red flag" your mistaken.

 

[Wyobohunter]

We don't have "enforcement" of most Laws now. If you think there will be a sanction for anyone filing a false complaint against someone under a "red flag" your mistaken.

So your claim only applies to the laws you like? That isn’t a good rhetorical argument.

 

[Wags]

So your claim only applies to the laws you like? That isn’t a good rhetorical argument.

No, just pointing out that anyone who thinks there'll be recourse for someone making a false claim is mistaken, IMO. It doesn't happen now on crimes as serious as DV, I see it every day.

Look how many criminals are let out early, reduced sentences, prisons closed & so on. The writing is clear. Sentencing on most crimes are far softer than ever and do less to dissuade than expected.