National Forest Camping Ethics

[87TT]

Kind of like taking a game camera. Stealing is stealing. If it’s not yours, don’t f with it. Call the authorities if you want but if you take or mess with someone else’s stuff you are just as bad as they are.
i don’t very often but have left my camp to make a run out to resupply, shower or whatever. Heaven help the person who I catch messing with my stuff.

 

[Phaseolus]

I am scratching my head trying to figure out the difference between leaving a camp set up to go camp somewhere else and leaving a camp set up to go back to town.

What management plan? Are hunters the only one allowed to camp? Do you have to have a purpose to camp now? Who deems the worthiness of that purpose?

Maybe we should just stick to the, you got 14 days and what you choose to do with those 14 days is up to you.

You’ve got 14 days but not 14 days of unattended use of a campsite.

 

[Mike Islander]

IMO total dick move to set up a camp in advance for the purpose of claiming a spot. You aren't camping. Your Shit doesn't belong in the woods. Might as well just set up a fence where you plan to camp.

But that's just me.

 

[stanginthe11s]

all of this comes down to optics, and the fact that while some guys may be genuine, there are more guys doing this just to be ass turkeys. we do not know who is who, so the old saying of one bad apple spoils the bunch applies here.
I see the same campers and tents every year in the same spots in the NF. I get there at the same time every year like clockwork. there's no way that the same campers just happen to get the same spot every time and somehow never leave tire tracks. this is the group of people that causes the responses we see here.

I have also watched people take spots only to unload a side x side and hunt somewhere else or take spots during archery season only to find they are there for gun season but use "scouting" as an excuse. this behavior is ridiculous and is a major factor in overcrowding. some people have jobs and lives and can't just get there weeks before season to fight for an opportunity to hunt and they shouldn't have to.
​

I wouldn't t have cared if anyone set up next to me, I'd have actually preferred it due to deterring any thief's and consolidating noise/scent.

your reasoning is valid, and you are open to sharing the spot, but how do we know what camp is yours? for every good person there are 10 bad people doing it out of spite. we both know you see the same things a lot of us see so how do we differentiate?

I have left my camp up and went home to restock, shower etc for a couple of days. Again don't sweat the small sh^^. Go hunt your own hunt.

what about the guy who doesn't have the luxury of just going home for a bit? he worked all year to hunt but can't because you needed a shower etc. were here to hunt until we aren't, that's it. I don't blame you for having the ability to do what you do, but feel you should be considerate of those who are less fortunate.
I don't think anyone is upset at the people who actually need to do this. we all get that life happens and we work around it, but there are more people doing it just because they feel special.

 

[sndmn11]

all of this comes down to optics, and the fact that while some guys may be genuine, there are more guys doing this just to be ass turkeys. we do not know who is who, so the old saying of one bad apple spoils the bunch applies here.
I see the same campers and tents every year in the same spots in the NF. I get there at the same time every year like clockwork. there's no way that the same campers just happen to get the same spot every time and somehow never leave tire tracks. this is the group of people that causes the responses we see here.

I have also watched people take spots only to unload a side x side and hunt somewhere else or take spots during archery season only to find they are there for gun season but use "scouting" as an excuse. this behavior is ridiculous and is a major factor in overcrowding. some people have jobs and lives and can't just get there weeks before season to fight for an opportunity to hunt and they shouldn't have to.
​

your reasoning is valid, and you are open to sharing the spot, but how do we know what camp is yours? for every good person there are 10 bad people doing it out of spite. we both know you see the same things a lot of us see so how do we differentiate?


what about the guy who doesn't have the luxury of just going home for a bit? he worked all year to hunt but can't because you needed a shower etc. were here to hunt until we aren't, that's it. I don't blame you for having the ability to do what you do, but feel you should be considerate of those who are less fortunate.
I don't think anyone is upset at the people who actually need to do this. we all get that life happens and we work around it, but there are more people doing it just because they feel special.

Does it matter "who is who"? A person is either outside the legal timeframe or not, the reason for either is irrelevant.

 

[stanginthe11s]

it should matter to you. do you feel you are the same as the guy doing it out of spite?

14 days of camping is 14 days of CAMPING. not 14 days of "maybe ill hunt this spot one of these days".

 

[Jethro]

I agree with set the tent and obey the days rule, but the numerous NF I have hunted all have their own rules. Some are 14 days, some 16, one is 30 days for camping. Medicine Bow has the most specific verbiage outlining this issue. In MB the OP would clearly be legal to set up his tent and leave it. He would actually be in violation if he camped/scouted, pulled his camp, then showed up a week later and set camp at same spot.

 

[Fatcamp]

Kind of like taking a game camera. Stealing is stealing. If it’s not yours, don’t f with it. Call the authorities if you want but if you take or mess with someone else’s stuff you are just as bad as they are.
i don’t very often but have left my camp to make a run out to resupply, shower or whatever. Heaven help the person who I catch messing with my stuff.

Problem being, just like atv/utv traffic going wherever they please, enforcement resources are spread so thin that nothing is done about it. That leaves people frustrated.

We have watched a beautiful campsite all week that has been used for two days. It is first come first served and I'm guessing it will still be set up when we leave. Pretty lame for others who would like to camp in an area with very limited options.

 

[sndmn11]

it should matter to you. do you feel you are the same as the guy doing it out of spite?

14 days of camping is 14 days of CAMPING. not 14 days of "maybe ill hunt this spot one of these days".

No it should not, and absolutely should never matter to me the why of a person's lawful actions. Who am I to interfere with another person following the law? I'm not going to dictate to someone that their lawful actions need to cease, that's bananas.

 

[stanginthe11s]

this thread was about morals, not legality. just because something is legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

 

[stanginthe11s]

let me give 2 scenarios that relate to this thread.

1) there is traffic on the highway because a lane ends, everyone is moving over but one guy feels he doesn't need to be there, so he jumps in the lane that's ending and cuts in front of everyone else. is it legal? yes. is he a dick? 1000%
2) you're on a bus, you paid to be there. an old lady carrying bags gets on but there are no seats left. do you offer your seat? legally you have the right to sit there, but who do you want to be?

 

[CorbLand]

Guys I got it figured out. Just don’t go camping/hunting. If you do, your taking someone’s ability to do so or you aren’t doing it to the standards that someone else feels you should.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

....... I'm not going to dictate to someone that their lawful actions need to cease, that's bananas.

Agreed

 

[idcuda]

If I set up camp the weekend before so I don’t have to opening day…would that not be considered “facilitating the hunt?”

I have done this. We took a camper up the Sunday before opener. We didn’t do it to save the spot, we did it because we would have all day Sunday to set things up versus 3 hours the night before opener.

Haha, you got me. I can see you would rather just be right. All the best this coming season.

 

[CorbLand]

Haha, you got me. I can see you would rather just be right. All the best this coming season.

It’s less about being “right” and more about there being literally no difference between setting up a camp and hiking some place else to camp and setting up camp and driving back to town.

I am all for double standards but admit that they exist.

 

[sndmn11]

this thread was about morals, not legality. just because something is legal doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

He had actually asked about the ethics of his scenario, not the morality. Neither supercede legality.

They become intertwined when one person thinks their "morals" supercede another person's legal actions. Morals are an introspective governance of a person's own actions and behavior. My morals are mine, yours are yours. You had stated that I should care about something, and I stated my moral position of why I don't care.

Your wish to impose your moral views on others by stating how I should care about something is one version of why laws exist. I also think that it is immoral by definition. I don't care what a person does that is legal because my moral beliefs should never supercede that person's and vice versa. It doesn't mean I would do the same, it means I am respectful of their right to live their own legal life.

let me give 2 scenarios that relate to this thread.

1) there is traffic on the highway because a lane ends, everyone is moving over but one guy feels he doesn't need to be there, so he jumps in the lane that's ending and cuts in front of everyone else. is it legal? yes. is he a dick? 1000%
2) you're on a bus, you paid to be there. an old lady carrying bags gets on but there are no seats left. do you offer your seat? legally you have the right to sit there, but who do you want to be?

How do you know the person is a dick if you don't know the reasoning for their action? You wrote three paragraphs above outlining what is justifiable and what isn't, writing about need and spite.

all of this comes down to optics, and the fact that while some guys may be genuine, there are more guys doing this just to be ass turkeys. we do not know who is who, so the old saying of one bad apple spoils the bunch applies here.
I see the same campers and tents every year in the same spots in the NF. I get there at the same time every year like clockwork. there's no way that the same campers just happen to get the same spot every time and somehow never leave tire tracks. this is the group of people that causes the responses we see here.

I have also watched people take spots only to unload a side x side and hunt somewhere else or take spots during archery season only to find they are there for gun season but use "scouting" as an excuse. this behavior is ridiculous and is a major factor in overcrowding. some people have jobs and lives and can't just get there weeks before season to fight for an opportunity to hunt and they shouldn't have to.
​

your reasoning is valid, and you are open to sharing the spot, but how do we know what camp is yours? for every good person there are 10 bad people doing it out of spite. we both know you see the same things a lot of us see so how do we differentiate?


what about the guy who doesn't have the luxury of just going home for a bit? he worked all year to hunt but can't because you needed a shower etc. were here to hunt until we aren't, that's it. I don't blame you for having the ability to do what you do, but feel you should be considerate of those who are less fortunate.
I don't think anyone is upset at the people who actually need to do this. we all get that life happens and we work around it, but there are more people doing it just because they feel special.

 

[Grousehntr]

Plenty of sites available the day before opener don't be a bag hog

 

[ReaptheHeat]

let me give 2 scenarios that relate to this thread.

1) there is traffic on the highway because a lane ends, everyone is moving over but one guy feels he doesn't need to be there, so he jumps in the lane that's ending and cuts in front of everyone else. is it legal? yes. is he a dick? 1000%
2) you're on a bus, you paid to be there. an old lady carrying bags gets on but there are no seats left. do you offer your seat? legally you have the right to sit there, but who do you want to be?

I gotta reply and tell you that scenario 1 (zipper merging) is the proper way to merge. You are actually a jackass if you don't allow someone to merge from the ending lane to the active lane. Full occupancy of the ending lane is the fastest way to move traffic.

But on to the discussion, setting your RV/tent city hunt camp up off the main FS road and leaving it unoccupied for weeks is a no-go for me. Many forests have rules about not being present at your site for a period of time (72 hours for many). Doesn't mean it will be enforced or ever has been. Its never been a bigger problem than today with the increased population in Colorado and other western states and the increased popularity of western hunting. FS and BLM don't have the resources to deal with it.

I usually don't camp where you can bring a camper anyway.

 

[stanginthe11s]

@sndmn11, the OP asked for an opinion on a moral situation, that's it. it wasn't a discussion on the legality of it as he already knew it was legal. like you said, my morals are mine and yours are yours, so respect that. I am not trying to impose anything on you, you have been leading the discussion and don't like the answers. why do people ask questions that they don't want the answer to?
my opinion of you should care is just that, an opinion. if you don't want to care who you share the woods with then that's fine. for me, I like to know what kind of person is next to me in the woods because I don't enjoy getting shot, it's not fun.

How do you know the person is a dick if you don't know the reasoning for their action? You wrote three paragraphs above outlining what is justifiable and what isn't, writing about need and spite.

it doesn't matter what their reason are, remember.

this can go back and forth and get nowhere, like I said earlier be the person you want to be. if answering a question is somehow imposing my beliefs on you then don't ask the question, that's it.

 

[87TT]

HYOH
Hunt your own hunt.