Mystery Ranch to sell REI type packs to the masses of asses.....

[machinethomas]

I'm excited to see the new packs and sounds like lower prices. I've always wanted a MR pack but it hasn't been realistic. Maybe it's my year!

 

[airlocksniffer]

The difference in my mind between Mystery Ranch and Lowa/Swaro/Hilleberg is the latter are foreign made items from foreign owned companies. I'd be willing to bet the workers making Lowa boots get a living wage, health insurance, paid leave, etc. I'm pretty sure the workers in Chinese factories get none of this. The goal in moving production to Asian factories is decreased manufacturing cost primarily because labor is dirt cheap.
Yeah, MR won't be able to compete with Osprey/TNF/Gregory on the mid-range hiking packs w/o lowering costs but why do they have to? Are they really going to offer anything different than these pack companies for these types of packs?

Dana Design was once in a similar spot as Mystery Ranch and look what happened. I don't think those packs got any cheaper but all production moved overseas when acquired by K2/Marmot. Patrick Smith sold Mountainsmith (bought by Kelty?) and all production moved overseas. Will Kifaru take the same route as Mystery Ranch?

 

[tipsntails7]

The last four post sum up my thoughts to a "T".

Lots of guys wear Lowa boots. Lots of guys use German glass. Hilleberg tents? Dodge trucks? Weatherby rifles? Gold Tip arrows?

C'mon. This shit gets old.

This doesn't even make sense. Lowa is not made in the Philippines and sold as German. No one would buy swaro if they came from China first. Dodge trucks... Well I don't know why you would buy a dodge anyway.

The point is that we have very few options to actually purchase USA made goods. But that's not my
Biggest issue. I own all kinds of shit from everywhere, I'm not partial and tend to use the best products I can find but my problem is the product is not going to be a better made product. It's just not. It will be cheaper, and it will probably be good enough but it's not going to be a better made product and trying to sell it as such is almost insulting... "We are outsourcing our work to insure a better quality product". Have you ever seen that statement actually be true??

 

[dotman]

This doesn't even make sense. Lowa is not made in the Philippines and sold as German. No one would buy swaro if they came from China first. Dodge trucks... Well I don't know why you would buy a dodge anyway.

The point is that we have very few options to actually purchase USA made goods. But that's not my
Biggest issue. I own all kinds of shit from everywhere, I'm not partial and tend to use the best products I can find but my problem is the product is not going to be a better made product. It's just not. It will be cheaper, and it will probably be good enough but it's not going to be a better made product and trying to sell it as such is almost insulting... "We are outsourcing our work to insure a better quality product". Have you ever seen that statement actually be true??

I agree, while I think it will be good for MR and expand their customer base no way will it be a better product.

 

[bogeyboy555]

Starting this post I never thought would lead to so much good dialogue - some decent (and backwards) insights all across this thread...

Their are obvious negative connotations of Asian produced goods, but I don't really mind companies producing their goods in Asia. My issue is when a company uses the "Made in the USA" reputation to build a brand toting the "better made, buy local, highest quality, etc" messaging - only to abandon their US manufacturing once the brand has been established...

Classic Bait and Switch...

 

[Kevin Dill]

I tend to agree with bogeyboy555's statement, with a qualifier: Some companies clearly appear to have that 'bait/switch' scheme in place almost from the beginning, and it's not terribly hard to discern. Others start out and maintain a 100% USA product but that philosophy changes over time...perhaps due to a large variety of factors.

A company taking their product offshore...whether to China, Thailand, New Zealand, Japan, or any other country...is nothing new and it's been happening since the post WWII era. There was a time when anything coming from Japan was literally scorned as junk, but their R&D + manufacturing processes overcame that to enable products actually superior to comparable USA items at the time. A good many of the foregoing comments seem to make this discussion more about Asian mfg hatred than anything. What if MR packs were headed to Canada or Italy? How about southern Mexico? For that matter, if Swarovski decided to build scopes in Mississippi would we think as much of them? You know the honest answer...

Given the years that MR has been in business I don't see this as a bait/switch. I see it as a complex decision based on a likely variety of factors. As an employer myself I can assure anyone that the US govt does almost everything it can to make life very difficult for businesses. Just meeting state and federal requirements is beyond the comprehension of most who haven't owned or operated a company. Then we have the major obstacle of having (in many cases) an unwilling and entitled pool of potential applicants to employ. Hiring good and willing employees who test drug-free is a challenge for every employer in this country right now. There should be no shock in understanding that it is very tempting for a company to divest itself of many obstacles and threats to success found here...by going there to achieve actual manufacturing. It's way over-simplifying to assert it's only about money and profitability. Many times it's about eliminating or bypassing a couple major obstacles in order to build business and compete on a larger scale.

 

[Jason Snyder]

This doesn't even make sense. Lowa is not made in the Philippines and sold as German. No one would buy swaro if they came from China first. Dodge trucks... Well I don't know why you would buy a dodge anyway.

So it's okay to send your money to an overseas company, but not okay to send your money to a domestic company that outsources overseas? That logic makes no sense.

I get your point, and in an ideal world that functions as a vacuum that would be the case. It's not.

No one would give a shit if Swaro was outsourced to China if the quality stayed the same.

 

[tipsntails7]

So it's okay to send your money to an overseas company, but not okay to send your money to a domestic company that outsources overseas? That logic makes no sense.

I get your point, and in an ideal world that functions as a vacuum that would be the case. It's not.

No one would give a shit if Swaro was outsourced to China if the quality stayed the same.

That's kind off the point, it wouldn't or else they would already be doing that. Like I said I don't have an issue with them going there, I understand why and banging the drum for USA made products only is an act in futility. But to portray the the move as something more then it is. That's the only problem I have. That and they discontinued the bighorn.. Which is my favourite pack that's ever been made.

 

[tipsntails7]

I tend to agree with bogeyboy555's statement, with a qualifier: Some companies clearly appear to have that 'bait/switch' scheme in place almost from the beginning, and it's not terribly hard to discern. Others start out and maintain a 100% USA product but that philosophy changes over time...perhaps due to a large variety of factors.

A company taking their product offshore...whether to China, Thailand, New Zealand, Japan, or any other country...is nothing new and it's been happening since the post WWII era. There was a time when anything coming from Japan was literally scorned as junk, but their R&D + manufacturing processes overcame that to enable products actually superior to comparable USA items at the time. A good many of the foregoing comments seem to make this discussion more about Asian mfg hatred than anything. What if MR packs were headed to Canada or Italy? How about southern Mexico? For that matter, if Swarovski decided to build scopes in Mississippi would we think as much of them? You know the honest answer...

Given the years that MR has been in business I don't see this as a bait/switch. I see it as a complex decision based on a likely variety of factors. As an employer myself I can assure anyone that the US govt does almost everything it can to make life very difficult for businesses. Just meeting state and federal requirements is beyond the comprehension of most who haven't owned or operated a company. Then we have the major obstacle of having (in many cases) an unwilling and entitled pool of potential applicants to employ. Hiring good and willing employees who test drug-free is a challenge for every employer in this country right now. There should be no shock in understanding that it is very tempting for a company to divest itself of many obstacles and threats to success found here...by going there to achieve actual manufacturing. It's way over-simplifying to assert it's only about money and profitability. Many times it's about eliminating or bypassing a couple major obstacles in order to build business and compete on a larger scale.

Kevin I know your a big Kuiu guy, and I believe you have been there from the beginning, and it's a perfect example. I can literally line my attack pants up in chronological order and see the quality differences. Do they accomplish the same goal. Sure but the craftsmanship has clearly deteriorated.

 

[Jason Snyder]

But to portray the the move as something more then it is. That's the only problem I have. That and they discontinued the bighorn.. Which is my favourite pack that's ever been made.

Perfectly understood. I guess I'll reserve judgment to see what kind of product they put out first.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Kevin I know your a big Kuiu guy, and I believe you have been there from the beginning, and it's a perfect example. I can literally line my attack pants up in chronological order and see the quality differences. Do they accomplish the same goal. Sure but the craftsmanship has clearly deteriorated.

I guess it's matter of personal interpretation. I was a KUIU buyer at the outset but divested myself of 100% of everything (I owned) while it was being made in North America. I sold it all...and that was several thousand dollars in clothing. I sold it because ultimately I didn't like the fit or features at that point in time. I felt like the product made in Canada was inferior. After they moved production to Asia (and after I tried some of it) I felt like it showed a definite improvement in overall accuracy and quality features. So I ramped up and bought what I wanted. I just got back from an Alaska trip (3 weeks long) and from what I observed while there, KUIU doesn't have any acceptance issues with Alaskan hunters. I'm not even sure I saw any Sitka Gear coming and going, but I saw a lot of guys wearing their KUIU stuff all over (something I don't do incidentally). I wore 100% KUIU during my hunt and it was one of the most horrendous weather periods I've ever experienced. The clothing I wore (Asian built) excelled and had zero issues. It arguably saved my hunt and kept me going where lesser quality stuff would have required a pull-out. Real men don't pull out.

As said, it's open to interpretation. MR may suffer or prosper. Their hunting packs may be better in the long run...or not. I'll keep an open mind. I rented a KIA Optima while in Alaska and put 2500 rough miles on it; meanwhile seeing a plethora of American vehicles sitting with problems. I swore a KIA was junk once...hmm...I've learned to be less judgmental these days.

 

[LBFowler]

Having seen most of MRs new lineup, I predict they will do well. In my mind the new hunting frame is a pretty big improvement over the NICE, and will probably out-compete most of what is available on the shelves of your average hunting store. The no-separate-frame thing is going to hurt them in the online world but I think most guys buying a pack off the shelf would just roll with whatever bag it came with anyway.
with the REI crowd I think they will do quite well, I don't think Osprey has anything to worry about but they'll give Gregory/Deuter/kelty a run for their money.
How they do in the Kifaru/SG/EXO/Kuiu/SO circles will be the real question. There will always be the Berry packs for those that want them.

 

[todd kelly]

This doesn't even make sense. Lowa is not made in the Philippines and sold as German. No one would buy swaro if they came from China first. Dodge trucks... Well I don't know why you would buy a dodge anyway.

Pretty sure my Swaro scope says assembled in USA and so do my zeiss....... Is this not the same thing? using their European reputation to sell there product that is assembled and serviced overseas?

When My dad sent his Swaros out for warrant repair he did not send them to Austria to have old world craftsmen fix them. They went across the line to have usa workers fix them.

As long as they can maintain a high standard and stay on top of the quality control and back there products as they do now, it's a good move for MR. Trust me, when i read about the move I was disappointing, but at the end of the day, it's not my business to run.


Edit,

Just looked at my wife's Lowa shoes and they say made in Slovakia, and my Scarpa shoes say made in china. Seems like even the best do some outsourcing.....

 

[id450]

They are also getting ready to sign a contract with Cal Fire. That's California forestry. That's like 9000 packs. It will interesting to see how Their customer service goes . They are Rampling up big time for sure

 

[SDC]

I had heard this was coming and the new bag must be ordered with the frame tells me that it's not just the new REI type packs that are getting some salt water under them. They only company that I'm sure is selling Berry compliant all American made packs is Kifaru. Exo and SG sew here but they're not using 100% American made materials and components. It's one of the reasons they are less expensive than Kifaru.

Hill People Gear also is Berry Compliant.

 

[jherald]

Kevin I know your a big Kuiu guy, and I believe you have been there from the beginning, and it's a perfect example. I can literally line my attack pants up in chronological order and see the quality differences. Do they accomplish the same goal. Sure but the craftsmanship has clearly deteriorated.

+1 it has been unfortunately noticeable.

 

[machinethomas]

When will we get to see what the new packs are gonna look like? Anyone know?

 

[cuerro viejo]

Berry compliant means Puerto Rico

 

[Aron Snyder]

Berry compliant means Puerto Rico

Don't lump us in with that, but you're right....

 

[Aron Snyder]

The difference in my mind between Mystery Ranch and Lowa/Swaro/Hilleberg is the latter are foreign made items from foreign owned companies. I'd be willing to bet the workers making Lowa boots get a living wage, health insurance, paid leave, etc. I'm pretty sure the workers in Chinese factories get none of this. The goal in moving production to Asian factories is decreased manufacturing cost primarily because labor is dirt cheap.
Yeah, MR won't be able to compete with Osprey/TNF/Gregory on the mid-range hiking packs w/o lowering costs but why do they have to? Are they really going to offer anything different than these pack companies for these types of packs?

Dana Design was once in a similar spot as Mystery Ranch and look what happened. I don't think those packs got any cheaper but all production moved overseas when acquired by K2/Marmot. Patrick Smith sold Mountainsmith (bought by Kelty?) and all production moved overseas. Will Kifaru take the same route as Mystery Ranch?

We are staying 100% made in the United States with American components.