My second Seekins rifle that has issues

[Timjohnson11]

Holy hell, for the last time, the warranty rate is 2%, not 3%…. Massive difference between the two… Seekins has had ~300 guns come back from ~15k guns sold.

1/2 of those (or 150 guns) came back for accuracy not being up to expectations, yet Glen stated separately that > 25% of those with “accuracy issues” were due to poorly installed rings/scopes. The other half came back for everything from stock imperfections to light firing pin strikes..

Tikka would have a higher “warranty” rate than Seekins if their policy was as liberal in coverage, and as easy/quick to file and handle.

 

[Durable Gun]

3%?

 

[Durable Gun]

Holy hell, for the last time, the warranty rate is 2%, not 3%…. Massive difference between the two… Seekins has had ~300 guns come back from ~15k guns sold.

1/2 of those (or 150 guns) came back for accuracy not being up to expectations, yet Glen stated separately that > 25% of those with “accuracy issues” were due to poorly installed rings/scopes. The other half came back for everything from stock imperfections to light firing pin strikes..

Tikka would have a higher “warranty” rate than Seekins if their policy was as liberal in coverage, and as easy/quick to file and handle.

Sorry for finding this humorous. You seem very passionate. I love it.

 

[Formidilosus]

Tikka would have a higher “warranty” rate than Seekins if their policy was as liberal in coverage, and as easy/quick to file and handle.

No- they wouldn’t. You are making excuses and coping. There are no threads with person after person with legitimate Tikka/Sako/Blaser/Sauer problems. When someone has a legitimate issue with a tikka, it’s- “that sucks, never seen it” from almost everyone.
I have seen hundreds of of Tikka’s- 1x 7mm-08, 1x 7mm RM, and 1x 223 were picky with ammo- that is they didn’t shoot nearly everything well, though they shot some ammo exceptionally well. The one 7mm RM was the only one sent back to Tikka, and they replaced the barrel without fuss. The 7mm-08 shot the ammo that the individual wanted it to shoot, so he didn’t care. The 223 is one of the school rifles and shoots everything to about 1.75 MOA 10 round groups, but shoots 77gr TMK’s to under 1.3 MOA- @Nine Banger used it to kill a bear.

No US manufacturer produces rifles with the quality and consistency of European, Scandinavian, and Finnish manufacturers. That is a fact.

 

[Timjohnson11]

No- they wouldn’t. You are making excuses and coping. There are no threads with person after person with legitimate Tikka/Sako/Blaser/Sauer problems. When someone has a legitimate issue with a tikka, it’s- “that sucks, never seen it” from almost everyone.
I have seen hundreds of of Tikka’s- 1x 7mm-08, 1x 7mm RM, and 1x 223 were picky with ammo- that is they didn’t shoot nearly everything well, though they shot some ammo exceptionally well. The one 7mm RM was the only one sent back to Tikka, and they replaced the barrel without fuss. The 7mm-08 shot the ammo that the individual wanted it to shoot, so he didn’t care. The 223 is one of the school rifles and shoots everything to about 1.75 MOA 10 round groups, but shoots 77gr TMK’s to under 1.3 MOA- @Nine Banger used it to kill a bear.

No US manufacturer produces rifles with the quality and consistency of European, Scandinavian, and Finnish manufacturers. That is a fact.

Not coping with anything. Just stating my experience and opinion. Perhaps I’m an outlier but I own handful of Seekins and Tikka. Every single one of my Seekins has outshot every single one of my Tikkas out of the box, and has been materially more forgiving when it came to ammo. Combine that with the fact that I’ve never had a single issue with any of my Seekins as far as function and fire, and I guess I’m just a bit loyal.

I genuinely believe the warranty rate would be higher for Tikkas than Seekins if Tikka’s policy was as accepting, liberal in coverage, and easy to file. I have a couple I certainly would have sent back over the years for being so picky.

I have a Tikka 6PRC getting built so certainly not a Tikka hater, just sharing my experience and views.

 

[wind gypsy]

2%, 3%, whatever. I’m positive my odds of getting something I wouldn’t be satisfied with is higher than either of those numbers. They were 0 for 2 on ph/ph2 for me. I only sent in for warranty once because the time and effort of effing with them was worth more than what a well chambered bartlein costs to not deal with it anymore.

Everyone wants a light bolt lift 60 degree action but that comes with compromises in the ignition system as is evidenced.

I still like seekins but I think I’d rather have a ph2 at this point.

 

[Formidilosus]

Not coping with anything. Just stating my experience and opinion. Perhaps I’m an outlier but I own handful of Seekins and Tikka. Every single one of my Seekins has outshot every single one of my Tikkas out of the box, and has been materially more forgiving when it came to ammo. Combine that with the fact that I’ve never had a single issue with any of my Seekins as far as function and fire, and I guess I’m just a bit loyal.

I genuinely believe the warranty rate would be higher for Tikkas than Seekins if Tikka’s policy was as accepting, liberal in coverage, and easy to file. I have a couple I certainly would have sent back over the years for being so picky.

I have a Tikka 6PRC getting built so certainly not a Tikka hater, just sharing my experience and views.

But you are stating your views as facts- when this very thread shows otherwise. Not only that, your sample set is small.

However- my issue wasn’t that Seekins rifles are bad- they’re probably some of the better “custom” actioned M700’s available. My point was- 2% to 3% warranty rate, acknowledging a firing pin spring issue; and then justifying it and being ok with it, if not pleased with it.

Again, if Tikka/Sako/Sauer/Blaser/etc had a 2-3% return rate- employees would be fired, and/or practices corrected. They would not, and do not accept that level of “problems”.

 

[solarshooter]

I've heard of exactly 1 Tikka in my circle that shot so bad the owner tried to warranty it. It was a .223. He was not the original owner so Beretta did not offer any coverage even though it was nearly brand new. He ended up selling it on to another friend who was able to get it shooting well. That's literally the worst thing I've heard happen with a Tikka.

 

[solarshooter]

But you are stating your views as facts- when this very thread shows otherwise. Not only that, your sample set is small.

However- my issue wasn’t that Seekins rifles are bad- they’re probably some of the better “custom” actioned M700’s available. My point was- 2% to 3% warranty rate, acknowledging a firing pin spring issue; and then justifying it and being ok with it, if not pleased with it.

Again, if Tikka/Sako/Sauer/Blaser/etc had a 2-3% return rate- employees would be fired, and/or practices corrected. They would not, and do not accept that level of “problems”.

For context on what this failure rate looks like for large scale production, the current gen Toyota Tundra engine failures are occurring at a ~1% rate. And that is enough to recall hundreds of thousands of trucks for preemptive full engine replacement, and destroy the reputation of the most reliable vehicle on the road.

One of the biggest red flags I saw with Seekins was when my friend sent his PH2 Element 28 Nos in for a new barrel. They quickly and without explanation said that that particular design was no longer being supported and they would replace his gun completely with a new Element. They WOULD NOT send back his old gun, nor would they say what might have changed that necessitated a complete replacement. Pretty suspect to me, almost like they had discovered a major design or safety issue.

Overall, I look at it like Vortex, yes the warranty is great, but wouldn't you rather just never need to use it?

 

[BCDJR]

I have 1 Seekins, an element hunter purchased this summer. I had to send it in for warranty work due to extremely stiff bolt lift and poor accuracy. They rebuilt the rifle onto a new action, said they cleaned up the chamber and re-mounted the same barrel to the new action. They test fired it, sent pictures of impressive groups, and sent it back to me. The rifle still shot like garbage. I sent it back a second time, they test fired it, said it shot fine and returned it to me with an extra fixed stock, stating that the new stock may make it easier to shoot. The issue is, Seekins only tested 1 type of ammo and only shot 3 shot groups. The 143gr eldx, that they used to shoot test groups, does shoot well out of the rifle, but nothing else does. The accuracy difference between the eldx and everything else tested in substantial. The rifle is extremely sensitive and picky in regards to loads it likes (143gr eldx being the only one I’ve found so far). This rifle is used to hunt in CA, so I have to use copper. I have a load that shoots good enough, but a far cry from the accuracy I would expect for the price I paid.

Seekins customer service was pretty good and they tried to do right by me. The problem is that I had to use their warranty. What about those customers who get a lemon, but don’t use the warranty? How many of those are out there driving their failure rate over 3% to who knows what %?

I was in a Scheels handling Seekins they had on the rack the other day. Of the 5 rifles, one had the same stiff bolt lift my rifle suffered from. So just from handling 6 rifles perosnally, 2 had out of spec actions. That is a 33% failure rate from this sample. They are trying to say they have a 3% failure rate? That doesn’t add up.

I like Seekiin’s innovation and product line. Their customer service, when you eventually get ahold of them, is great. However, they have a QC opportunity they need to address

 

[wind gypsy]

The first M3 element i ever handled off the rack at scheels did not have a functioning bolt stop. Went to rack the bolt and the bolt never stopped coming back. It would slide completely out of the action. The bolt release wasn't stuck compressed or anything either.

 

[BCDJR]

As I read all these comments the one pain I see missing is the return of a bad gun. Years ago I remember walking into UPS or Fed Ex and shipping a gun. Not today or at least in my area of Atlanta. I don’t care if it’s for repairs the companies ( store outlets) will not take a gun. I had a Rizzini .410 that needed a little work on the spring to help the gun open easier after firing. So I had to get a shipping label from the Rizzini distributor. Then I had to take the gun to the main UPS office to ship. After that the gun was “ lost” in the system for 30 days. I did my research and saw nearly 3000 guns are lost or stolen every year after going into one of the major carrier’s system. I got some top officials from UPS involved and my gun was found 30 days later and 1200 miles in wrong direction of destination. It was a $9000 gun and I am sure it was gonna be gone to a pawn shop in another week. So all the folks dealing with this Seekins problem I wish you the best. Might be without a resolution for a while.

 

[solarshooter]

As I read all these comments the one pain I see missing is the return of a bad gun. Years ago I remember walking into UPS or Fed Ex and shipping a gun. Not today or at least in my area of Atlanta. I don’t care if it’s for repairs the companies ( store outlets) will not take a gun. I had a Rizzini .410 that needed a little work on the spring to help the gun open easier after firing. So I had to get a shipping label from the Rizzini distributor. Then I had to take the gun to the main UPS office to ship. After that the gun was “ lost” in the system for 30 days. I did my research and saw nearly 3000 guns are lost or stolen every year after going into one of the major carrier’s system. I got some top officials from UPS involved and my gun was found 30 days later and 1200 miles in wrong direction of destination. It was a $9000 gun and I am sure it was gonna be gone to a pawn shop in another week. So all the folks dealing with this Seekins problem I wish you the best. Might be without a resolution for a while.

The same friend in my above anecdote had his rifle crap out and had to send it in right before hunting season. Borrowed one of my Tikkas that year. Another aspect to consider, things can go bad at just the wrong time.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

For context on what this failure rate looks like for large scale production, the current gen Toyota Tundra engine failures are occurring at a ~1% rate. And that is enough to recall hundreds of thousands of trucks for preemptive full engine replacement, and destroy the reputation of the most reliable vehicle on the road.

One of the biggest red flags I saw with Seekins was when my friend sent his PH2 Element 28 Nos in for a new barrel. They quickly and without explanation said that that particular design was no longer being supported and they would replace his gun completely with a new Element. They WOULD NOT send back his old gun, nor would they say what might have changed that necessitated a complete replacement. Pretty suspect to me, almost like they had discovered a major design or safety issue.

Overall, I look at it like Vortex, yes the warranty is great, but wouldn't you rather just never need to use it?

Funny you mentioned Toyota.
Was listening to a podcast yesterday on marrage and the 50% failure rate.
He compared it to a stat about Toyota in the 90s had .01%brake line failure and recalled the whole batch of that model car that year.

 

[Durable Gun]

Well I should be getting back my 2 Seekins rifles any day now (been saying that for 2 weeks as they have been sitting at the border since the 12th)- reading the latter part of this thread has left me a little anxious and cautiously optimistic at best. I will keep everyone informed once I get them shooting. I will also share the group samples Seekins sent me for my rifles. The PRC PH3 looked really good. The Creedmoor HitPro looked decent. Wish me luck. Stay tuned.

 

[Durable Gun]

The Groups Seekins sent of my new rifles.

 

[solarshooter]

The Groups Seekins sent of my new rifles.

I've seen proof targets like that from them too. And the gun still didn't shoot. My buddy specifically asked for a 10 shot group but they wouldn't do it.

I don't mean to shit on them so hard and I sincerely hope your guns shoot and are reliable. I'm just relating some very familiar experiences.

 

[Durable Gun]

I've seen proof targets like that from them too. And the gun still didn't shoot. My buddy specifically asked for a 10 shot group but they wouldn't do it.

I don't mean to shit on them so hard and I sincerely hope your guns shoot and are reliable. I'm just relating some very familiar experiences.

Oh man.

 

[sneaky]

That to me this a bad post from Seekins. Having been associated with world class manufacturing globally most of my career ….the best ones don’t accept any failure. Do they achieve it no but the goal is zero. Hearing them say 3% seems to be ok and they had 3% before as a justification? So my question is how many new born babies is it ok for a hospital to drop?? That should be the standard. I’ve never purchased one of their guns and after reading these excuses from the owner I will not buy one

Don't ever look at numbers for Christensen then. You were also wrong in your numbers. 2% vs 3%. Not 3v3. No one is perfect and he admitted as such. You can strive to be perfect all the time, and you'll be short multiple times. It's just life. But whatever you like. All of their rifles I've had hands on shot extremely well. Someone with a manufacturing background should be the first to admit that 100% perfection isn't attainable.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[BCDJR]

Don't ever look at numbers for Christensen then. You were also wrong in your numbers. 2% vs 3%. Not 3v3. No one is perfect and he admitted as such. You can strive to be perfect all the time, and you'll be short multiple times. It's just life. But whatever you like. All of their rifles I've had hands on shot extremely well. Someone with a manufacturing background should be the first to admit that 100% perfection isn't attainable.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

True no one in mass production can meet zero defects. However any QC director who stood up in front of a board of directors and read what Seekins posted would be summarily fired. His comments were very defensive and he tried to compare to previous model failures as an acceptable reason for the new model defects. Hell your supposed to get better over time not worse.