Muzzleloader suggestions

[MikeA171]

I am looking to purchase my first muzzleloader for hunting elk in Washington and was hoping to find people with experience using a Knight vs a CVA. I am new to the game and know very little about muzzleloaders. A friend of mine suggested I purchase the Knight Ultra Lite in 50 cal online. I went to a Muzzleloader store near me in hopes of actually getting to put my hands on one and found they don't carry any. The owner of the shop and long time muzzleloader hunter said that Knight's are pretty much obsolete and that they haven't made anything new in the last 4 to 5 years. He showed me the CVA's and I was kind of leaning towards the MRX but am unsure, especially with the collapsible ramrod. Not sure if that is a big deal having to carry it on you as opposed to it being attached to the rifle, as well as having to buy an extra to use for cleaning. I have tried to do some research and comparisons on both but am finding conflicting info such as quality issues with CVA. I would really like to hear recommendations from people who have had experience using the Knight and or CVA. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Wrench]

I have both. I prefer the quality of the knight....but they are a niche market gun and cva is available from about anywhere. Knight costs more because it's simply better. A factory timney trigger is a good start.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

CVA accura LR-x

 

[nobody]

We’ve owned both and shot both in our family/hunting crew. Bottom line: flip a coin and buy what fits your use case and tickles your fancy.

 

[ElDiablito]

Knight is a much higher quality rifle. There are lots and lots of complaints about the quality control on CVAs.

And…the shop owner is mistaken - Knight just released the .40 Peregrine a year or two ago. Another brand to check out is Woodman Arms. They make the Patriot.

 

[sabotloader]

Western Ulite - awesome rifle

Or even the newer DISC

A side note if it fits within your budget I would really suggest you get a black Nitride model.

 

[Firehawk]

I have a Knight Wolverine 209 Extreme (basically today's Knight Bighorn) and a current CVA Accura MR-X. Both in .50 caliber. Both are accurate. The bore is extremely tight on my CVA and used Thor's sizing pack to determine which size is best for me. it was .002 smaller than the Knight. Each rifle is its own, but I thought that this was interesting.

My Knight is a shooter. Works always, and with the right ignition source, is legal in most states. It shoots conicals and sabots well, and I love the very hard to find Barnes Spitfire 285 grain on top of Triple 7 in that rifle. I have used it with a peep sight and with a scope. Been a workhorse and shoots great.

I got my CVA because my shops aroung me no longer carry Knight. My CVA shot powerbelts fine, but shines with the .500 Thor conical and was used last fall by my daughter to take her first antlered animal. It is scoped with a Burris Signature Select I had laying around and I feel entirely comfortable to 200 yards with my load with BH209. It is heavier than my Knight. I like the collapsible ramrod fine, but don't see any real advantage vs a full ramrod in thimbles on my rifle. But...it has worked really well and incorporates perfectly into my Marsupial bino harness.

Good luck! FH

 

[MallardSX2]

CVA.

No way would I ever go down the knight rifle road again (I have owned 2 of them).
Knight's look great but they are a PITA to clean, it takes $200 worth of components to get them to shoot right and their customer service SUCKS.

CVA with the BH209 breech plug all the way for this guy.

 

[Jimbee]

I hate muzzleloaders. I have or had a TC Encore, Savage, Remington, CVA Paramount, CVA Wolf. The CVA Wolf works and shoots just as good as any, was $200 brand new and I don't care if it gets rust or corrosion. After owning a few bolt action muzzleloaders, they seem silly. Extra weight, longer, harder to clean, harder to prime. Just find a new or used cheap break action is my suggestion.

 

[Wrench]

I hate muzzleloaders. I have or had a TC Encore, Savage, Remington, CVA Paramount, CVA Wolf. The CVA Wolf works and shoots just as good as any, was $200 brand new and I don't care if it gets rust or corrosion. After owning a few bolt action muzzleloaders, they seem silly. Extra weight, longer, harder to clean, harder to prime. Just find a new or used cheap break action is my suggestion.

The wolf is possibly the most underrated front stuffer out there. It's stupid simple and reliable with good accuracy and great portability.

 

[Novashooter]

Not making anything "new" in the last 5 years really shouldn't be a hold up. It's a muzzleloader you intend to hunt with. It's not important either, because it isn't true. They released the Peregrine just 2 years ago.

CVA has their place, but comparing them to Knight, that's a bit of a stretch. You will find people who got good CVA's that like them, and great for them. You will also find a lot of people who got bad ones. Barrel dimension and quality can vary widely on CVA.

Knight on the other hand is top shelf. Very few people get ones with bad barrels. As for accuracy, Knight has lots of national championships. As far as I can tell, CVA just won their first one.

That's just the two brands, very general overall quality. Both brands are exclusively modern inline designs, but both offer break actions, up to bolt actions. Knight offers more variety. In a quick 5 minute read through the Washington regulations it appears that centerfire primers like 209's are legal there. I don't see if it has to be "western" open ignition or not. If so, or if you have any chance of hunting surrounding states, then that right there I would lean strongly to Knight. It looks like CVA does make one open ignition option for the Optima, but I wouldn't want that one.

Mallard SX2 mentioned cleaning, which really depends on the model you get. Plus the more "modern" you get in muzzleloaders, the less user friendly they get in general. If you want something you can shoot every day and have fun, you should really be looking at a percussion or flintlock gun. I had a Knight bighorn, similar to the disc, and that was a nice balance. It was only two screws, and a breech plug. Then you just cleaned the barrel and breech plug. It was pretty easy. Something like the Knight ultra-lite, or CVA paramount are just going to be a PITA to clean, no ways around it. I'm guessing that's why a lot of guys turned to things like blackhorn 209 powder, so they can get away with very minimal cleaning.

This is just my opinion, but if I were not interested in traditional muzzleloaders, and wanted a new modern inline built for open sights that was accurate and dependable, I might have to lean to the disc extreme. The cost to accuracy ratio on that rifle is probably best there is. It has a good sight radius, and a good solid design. The only thing the ultra light really has on it, surprise, is that it's quite a bit lighter. At 6 pounds, I'm not sure I'd want to shoot that very much. If you just want to sight in, and hunt, it might be the better option. I can tell you from first hand experience, a muzzleloader without a usable ramrod on it is not a good plan. Yeah, ditching it saves a few ounces, and probably reduces some barrel harmonic issues. Those things might matter to someone pushing the extreme limits. Since you are limited to open sights, with some practice you can be making 200 yard shots. 150 and in being more ideal. At those ranges those things matter. Getting a good barrel that is accurate with that first shot is what matters. Getting good sights on there matters. Basic fiber optic open sights are poor for longer shots. Great for inside 75 yards. You will be wanting peep or aperture style sights. A globe sight is ideal for accuracy, but I've had mixed results using them hunting. I prefer an aperture and narrow front blade myself. But not having a ramrod when you need it right now, that's not something you want.

Having said all that, I think even better yet is to buy a used TC renegade or hawken percussion. They don't cost that much to find with junk barrels. Then you can choose if you want to go better for long range, or better for short range. Assuming you want more range, GM makes a fast twist barrel for these. Put a Lyman peep sight on it, along with preferred front sight. Alternatively you can send your barrely to Bob Hoyt and he will install a sleeve for less than most new barrels cost. You now have a rifle that is a dream to shoot, doesn't weigh too much, probably around 7 1/2 pounds, and is all around a much more user friendly muzzleloader. The barrel is held in with a key, they are way less fuss to clean. The icing on the cake for me is the trigger. Knight uses Timney triggers which are some fine triggers, but they just can't match a TC set trigger. A TC set trigger trips at just ounces of pull. The one and only "drawback" is they can't shoot the $160 per pound blackhorn 209 powder, not even with a 209 primer adapter.

 

[Novashooter]

" Yeah, ditching it saves a few ounces, and probably reduces some barrel harmonic issues. Those things might matter to someone pushing the extreme limits. Since you are limited to open sights, with some practice you can be making 200 yard shots. 150 and in being more ideal. At those ranges those things matter. Getting a good barrel that is accurate with that first shot is what matters. "

Correction on this part. At those relatively short ranges, your barrel harmonics do NOT matter that much. At least nothing a ramrod does matters. I would expect the Knight disc to shoot 1.5" at 100 yards, even with the ramrod. That's honest 5 shot group averages, not the cherry picked 3 shot "groups" you find on the internet. You probably won't get quite that with open sights, but that's really more to your sight selection, and eyesight.

 

[jimmy33]

Knight, and I don’t think its even close…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[marcymcee]

Definitely CVA for me, I really like the value of their muzzleloaders, they have got entry models like the CVA Wolf to just start out, but also great higher end models if thats what you want.

 

[texascelt]

I am looking to purchase my first muzzleloader for hunting elk in Washington and was hoping to find people with experience using a Knight vs a CVA. I am new to the game and know very little about muzzleloaders. A friend of mine suggested I purchase the Knight Ultra Lite in 50 cal online. I went to a Muzzleloader store near me in hopes of actually getting to put my hands on one and found they don't carry any. The owner of the shop and long time muzzleloader hunter said that Knight's are pretty much obsolete and that they haven't made anything new in the last 4 to 5 years. He showed me the CVA's and I was kind of leaning towards the MRX but am unsure, especially with the collapsible ramrod. Not sure if that is a big deal having to carry it on you as opposed to it being attached to the rifle, as well as having to buy an extra to use for cleaning. I have tried to do some research and comparisons on both but am finding conflicting info such as quality issues with CVA. I would really like to hear recommendations from people who have had experience using the Knight and or CVA. Thanks in advance for the help.

If your wanting a inline I would suggest the cva wolf magnum I have one in stainless and love it bought a wood stock from Boyd's stocks for it it as accurate as any regular rifle I have

 

[Stalker69]

Sabotshooter, That just ain’t right, those look as much like a muzzle loader. As a VW bug looks like a Porsche. It’s a cryin shame. lol ( and yea I got caught up in the line thing and have a knight myself, but I don’t even shoot it anymore)

 

[No_Murphy]

I am going to go with CVA Optima open sight version. I would choose CVA just because of the amount of people that use them and the ease of use. They seem to be the most user friendly and there are a lot of review/demonstrations on how to use them.

 

[Novashooter]

I am going to go with CVA Optima open sight version. I would choose CVA just because of the amount of people that use them and the ease of use. They seem to be the most user friendly and there are a lot of review/demonstrations on how to use them.

If you were looking for a simple break open muzzleloader, I don't understand why anyone would choose a CVA Optima over a Knight Vision. I've owned a Vision, and they are insanely accurate for $200. There are good Optima's out there, but no other rifle has as bad a reputation for poor quality than them. You have no idea what you are getting with their barrels.

 

[No_Murphy]

If you were looking for a simple break open muzzleloader, I don't understand why anyone would choose a CVA Optima over a Knight Vision. I've owned a Vision, and they are insanely accurate for $200. There are good Optima's out there, but no other rifle has as bad a reputation for poor quality than them. You have no idea what you are getting with their barrels.

I’m sure all of that could be true. Not saying that it isn’t. I will start looking at those muzzleloaders. Only reason why I say CVA is there V2 models make everything easy to use with basically no extra tools if you take care of your gun. Like with any other gun, you’re going to have to shoot the powder and bullet your gun likes. Not all of them are the same.

 

[Novashooter]

I'm not sure what tools you are referring to, but there's nothing special a Knight takes, or really any rifle today. For almost any inline, the only thing you really need to take apart on a regular basis is the breech plug, and all of them today are hex head. Everyone has a socket set, and every inline I've ever bought comes with a breech plug tool anyway. If you are referring to the capping tool for the FPJ Knights, then I agree, those are kind of stupid, I own one. As far as I know, you can get any Knight with a bare 209 breech plug now, including the Vision. It looks like they are even still on sale. I bought one back in the winter. Shot it a bunch, and loved it. I've already got 2 inlines which I never shoot, so I sold it to my brother who wanted a good rifle for hunting. My only preference is that I prefer hammer guns. The vision is an internal hammer which is cocked with the release lever on the bottom (also opens the action). No big deal, I just like my hammers. I haven't shot it in a while, but my TC Impact is a great one. I would recommend a used TC like that, but out of the box they really only shoot plastic sabot bullets really well. The reason is in the later years TC added a deep recessed muzzle to make loading easy, which is kind of does, but at the same time it ruins accuracy for anything that isn't a plastic sabot most of the time. The cure is simple, and it's what I did. I hack sawed the last 1" of my barrel off, and re crowned it. It shoots really good with the right loads. Still I think the Knight Vision takes the cake for ease of load work up. Everything seemed to shoot good in it. Maybe you'll get a good CVA. They can just vary so much in the barrels you can't be sure until you try it. When the Knight Vision is $200, the Optima simply doesn't make sense.