Muzzleloader Recommendation-Elk Gun

[Hammer3332]

Hi all,

I inherited a knight LK93 that I am considering replacing. I would like a lightweight muzzleloader legal primarily for Colorado. I figure if I ever go to any other state I could make the LK93 legal; for example Idaho. I have read through forums and have narrowed it down to the options below. Mostly just curious if the juice is worth the squeeze.

1) Woodman Patriot G3-seems like a good breech design with several options and can use light smokeless loads. I’m in Iowa so seems like the most versatile option. Not really a big fan of the look, but elk and deer don’t care about aesthetics. Also advertised as an MOA gun out to 200 yards.

2) Knight Ultralight-inferior breech design from what I’ve read but extremely accurate. Advertised as sub moa out to 200 yards. I’ve seen mixed responses on if a Bestill still does the breech modification or not. I’ve only seen one forum where the buyer didn’t care for it and sold it. Can’t do smokeless but that isn’t a deal breaker for me.

3) Try to find a used White-admittedly haven’t looking in to this very much.

4) CVA Paramount Pro V2-on the heavy side and expensive but a 300 yard gun. Seems like there is more favor towards a knight UL than the CVA paramount line.

5) CVA Accura MRX-not sure how much of an upgrade this would be other than the breech design. Also read it’s a mixed bag when it comes to barrel quality.

Anything I’m missing? I read some traditions reviews and the vortex strikerfire seems to fit the bill, but wasn’t as highly recommended as the above options.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

 

[ElDiablito]

Personally, I wouldn’t consider anything CVA makes. They’re famous for their poor fit/finish and questionable quality control.

The Knight, Woodman Patriot and old Whites are much better choices! I own a bunch of Whites, a couple of Woodman sml Omegas and just ordered a G3 a couple days ago. A TC Omega with a Woodman sml-capable barrel makes a fantastic versatile muzzy - but only offered in .45 and you’ve got to use a .50 for elk in CO.

Everything Woodman makes is absolutely top notch. Can’t go wrong with anything he makes!

 

[Hammer3332]

Personally, I wouldn’t consider anything CVA makes. They’re famous for their poor fit/finish and questionable quality control.

The Knight, Woodman Patriot and old Whites are much better choices! I own a bunch of Whites, a couple of Woodman sml Omegas and just ordered a G3 a couple days ago. A TC Omega with a Woodman sml-capable barrel makes a fantastic versatile muzzy - but only offered in .45 and you’ve got to use a .50 for elk in CO.

Everything Woodman makes is absolutely top notch. Can’t go wrong with anything he makes!

Thank you for the quick response. Most of the information I’ve read has been from your posts as well as sabotloader’s. I appreciate you sharing your experience. Out of curiosity, what is a good starting point for a White model that would be lightweight and accurate?

 

[ElDiablito]

Out of curiosity, what is a good starting point for a White model that would be lightweight and accurate?

I have 6-8 Whites now (not exactly sure how many lol) in .40-.50. If I were going to buy one it would be a Whitetail in .45, probably. The .50 would be more versatile I suppose as some states require a .50 min for the bigger game. I’d keep an eye on GB and MML for one.

 

[ghostrider272]

Just picked up a Woodman G3 Patriot. Haven’t shot it yet but the fit and finish, as well as the parts/design is top notch in my opinion. Sold off my TC Encore and Contender MLS after picking it up.

 

[Hammer3332]

Just picked up a Woodman G3 Patriot. Haven’t shot it yet but the fit and finish, as well as the parts/design is top notch in my opinion. Sold off my TC Encore and Contender MLS after picking it up.

Thank you! I’m leaning hard towards the woodman patriot g3. I am curious to see how well they shoot and pattern

 

[ghostrider272]

Will post once I get it out. May be a bit with the current to do list…

 

[guitarpreston]

Im shooting a knight, very nice rifle, but if I had to do it over again I would get a woodman or woodman omega. Getting the primers in and out of the bolt isn't awful but it could be easier with a diff design, I shimmed my primer pocket to get better crush and it helped but occasionally I still need to pick it out of there.

Im consistently hitting my steel deer out to 200 but dang thats a stretch with no magnification.

 

[Petcoon]

I have an MRX but don't love it, easy to clean I wouldn't hunt elk with a gun without a built in ram rod.
You might find a knight on gunbroker, once in a while they have sales. I have a Knight Bighorn in SS with a thumbhole stock I really like.

 

[Dan Carey]

Hard to keep up with all the new reg's each state is making up.

 

[jeffpg]

I am currently considering a Woodman Patriot G3 50 cal. breach action carbine for Colorado mule deer and elk hunts. I haven't heard a negative work about Woodman yet. With the Colorado restrictions, I am thinking that the carbine may provide plenty of range for open sights shooting, and being a 64 year old flatlander and still attempting to hunt the high country, I like the idea of the lighter weight and shorter rifle handling of the carbine and the simple operation of the breach design.

Does anyone see a reason to go with the standard G3 with a 24" barrel as opposed to the 22" barrel on the carbine?

 

[guitarpreston]

I am currently considering a Woodman Patriot G3 50 cal. breach action carbine for Colorado mule deer and elk hunts. I haven't heard a negative work about Woodman yet. With the Colorado restrictions, I am thinking that the carbine may provide plenty of range for open sights shooting, and being a 64 year old flatlander and still attempting to hunt the high country, I like the idea of the lighter weight and shorter rifle handling of the carbine and the simple operation of the breach design.

Does anyone see a reason to go with the standard G3 with a 24" barrel as opposed to the 22" barrel on the carbine?

Consider oal compared to your bolt guns. The woodmans are 5-7 inches shorter than my knight ML.

 

[guitarpreston]

You lose a lot of overall length without having much of an “action”

 

[ElDiablito]

I am currently considering a Woodman Patriot G3 50 cal. breach action carbine for Colorado mule deer and elk hunts. I haven't heard a negative work about Woodman yet. With the Colorado restrictions, I am thinking that the carbine may provide plenty of range for open sights shooting, and being a 64 year old flatlander and still attempting to hunt the high country, I like the idea of the lighter weight and shorter rifle handling of the carbine and the simple operation of the breach design.

Does anyone see a reason to go with the standard G3 with a 24" barrel as opposed to the 22" barrel on the carbine?

Great choice. I have a 22” G3. Two more inches may get you another 50 fps or so.

 

[Chris in TN]

Before I worried much about being sub-moa at 200 or 300 yards I'd take a good hard look at my own personal capabilities with open sights (or whatever sighting system is legal in your chosen state) under field conditions.

Having a 300 yard rifle doesn't help much when you have a 125 yard set of eyeballs.

Once in a while I have a certain .22lr trainer with peep sights that I will shoot out to 150-200-225 yards. If the light is nearly perfect I can fairly reliably hit the center of a big white steel plate with ammo that I know my drop for. Best case I'll put 3 in a row on a tennis ball. More likely, 3 shots on a softball. But when the light isn't perfect I might struggle to hit the entire 16" plate, and if the plate was the color of an elk, it would be even worse.

I guess my point in all of this - if you are going to be limited by your own eyeballs to perhaps 100-150 yards, spending extra money for that last bit of accuracy might not be worth it. A rifle that'll reliably hit a volleyball (when you shoot it with your eyes) at 150 yards might do 100% of what you ever need to do on an elk.

So with that, if wouldn't completely rule out going to walmart at the end of season and buying whatever open-sighted CVA they had on closeout for $200, and spending the rest of the winter figuring out if a) the rifle works/shoots well enough, and b) if you were capable of doing more with a better rifle.

I live in an eastern state where we can use scopes. This changes everything, of course. But I still shoot a couple of older caplocks for fun every now and then, and past 100 yards, I can assure you that the rifle isn't the limiting factor - I am.

ETA: You can also apply the same reasoning to ballistics. Virtually any conical muzzleloader bullet will properly ventilate an elk at the distances *I* can hit one with open sights, even with lighter powder charges. Maybe 80-90 grains of powder is more than plenty and going to 100+ won't make a major improvement in trajectory if you're only shooting perhaps 150 yards or less.

 

[Kauaihunter]

The White is “accurate” with conicals and will flatten pretty much anything on the planet. The plus is the easy loading and consistency with properly sized bullets. No cleaning between shots. I’ve done 50+ shots at the range, no swab. However, it’s no speed demon and trajectory is a major factor. It will get there and do the job but beyond 150 it starts to drop really fast. They are very well made rifles.