Must read; The Land: How Cowboys, Capitalism, and Corruption are Ruining the American West

[Floafffy]

Sounds like someone who is just complaining to complain.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Lost me right from the start with the anti capitalism. If you think capitalism is bad for the environment you should check out the environmental damage left by communism. Those shining beacons on the hill like the former USSR and modern China.

Neither of those are actually examples of communism. Both are examples of state capitalism under the guise of communism. Economic types are rarely if ever purist. For example, we have plenty of “socialist” style programs in our generally capitalist country. The roads you drive on, the schools most of our kids go to, social security etc.

 

[CoStick]

Its hard to trust anything the author says when so much of what he writes is slanted. Have to assume he's just full of BS. When someone is that woke you have to assume everything that comes out of their mouth is a lie.

Your views are probably slanted from a different direction, so together you might find the truth.

 

[Broomd]

Neither of those are actually examples of communism. Both are examples of state capitalism under the guise of communism. Economic types are rarely if ever purist. For example, we have plenty of “socialist” style programs in our generally capitalist country. The roads you drive on, the schools most of our kids go to, social security etc.

And this conflation is exactly why we are where we are at in this country.

Wonder how the Uyghers view that 'state capitalism' when they are being enslaved, beaten and murdered? Same goes for the 21 million Shanghai residents locked in their homes and apartments without food and medical care last month by the CCP.

The lengths that liberals will go to downplay, misdirect or justify evil are simply mindboggling.

 

[Wyobohunter]

And this conflation is exactly why we are where we are at in this country.

Wonder how the Uyghers view that 'state capitalism' when they are being enslaved, beaten and murdered? Same goes for the 21 million Shanghai residents locked in their homes and apartments without food and medical care last month by the CCP.

The lengths that liberals will go to downplay, misdirect or justify evil are simply mindboggling.

Looks like you are mixing things up there partner. Communism is not necessarily undemocratic and capitalism is not necessarily democratic. There can be democratic communist societies and fascist capitalist societies. I know that doesn’t jive with how you’d like to view the world or how you’d like to imagine history happened. Sorry about your luck. You’d likely be more informed if you’d pick up a book. That doesn’t mean you’d have to step foot into an evil socialist library. You can buy books too.

 

[Broomd]

Looks like you are mixing things up there partner. Communism is not necessarily undemocratic and capitalism is not necessarily democratic. There can be democratic communist societies and fascist capitalist societies. I know that doesn’t jive with how you’d like to view the world or how you’d like to imagine history happened. Sorry about your luck. You’d likely be more informed if you’d pick up a book. That doesn’t mean you’d have to step foot into an evil socialist library. You can buy books too.

Respectfully, you're nuts, bro.
Typical bleeding heart liberal trying to find merit in Communist theory and subsequent fascism in capitalism.
I state these things based on your comments here, not based on your local library, CNN, where you were born, etc. You're damaged goods either way.
Would seem hopeless to juxtapose American values, particularly those of this forum with your Marxist leanings, but you certainly do your best.

By the way, right now I'm reading The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, happy to let you read it when I am done, but being a Communist, you won't like it.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Respectfully, you're nuts, bro.
Typical bleeding heart liberal trying to find merit in Communist theory and subsequent fascism in capitalism.
I state these things based on your comments here, not based on your local library, CNN, where you were born, etc. You're damaged goods either way.
Would seem hopeless to juxtapose American values, particularly those of this forum and your Marxist leanings, but you do your best.

By the way, right now I'm reading The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, happy to let you read it when I am done, but being a Communist, you won't like it.
View attachment 405995

Wow! A book! Great job lil’ fella! Trying to prove you can read? Admirable! Maybe you should read the whole thing? On second thought, stick with the abridged version. Your head will hurt less.

I simply pointed out some historical and theoretical differences. That is not “finding merit”. Please don’t try to tell me what it means to be a good American.

 

[CoStick]

Respectfully, you're nuts, bro.
Typical bleeding heart liberal trying to find merit in Communist theory and subsequent fascism in capitalism.
I state these things based on your comments here, not based on your local library, CNN, where you were born, etc. You're damaged goods either way.
Would seem hopeless to juxtapose American values, particularly those of this forum with your Marxist leanings, but you certainly do your best.

By the way, right now I'm reading The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, happy to let you read it when I am done, but being a Communist, you won't like it.
View attachment 405995

America has a constitution not values. The constitution gives you rights to choose your values, obviously within the legal realm.

 

[Broomd]

Wow! A book! Great job lil’ fella! Trying to prove you can read? Admirable! Maybe you should read the whole thing? I tend to go for the unabridged books myself. Maybe they threw in some pictures for ya.
Showing you can understand content would be even better.

Ya see little guy, I simply pointed out some historical and theoretical differences. Tell me how that is “finding merit”.
If understanding the difference makes me a bleeding heart liberal and/or communist in your opinion I think I can live with that.

By the way. Don’t pretend you know my values when we’ve never had an actual conversation, it makes you sound presumptuous. Don’t pretend your values are the only acceptable American values, it makes you sound uneducated. And for the love of money don’t keep throwing in “big” words that don’t really help your point. It doesn’t make you appear any smarter.

Go ahead and take your time. I’m sure you’ll need to google some real great zinger big ol’ words.

Meh, you might be the biggest narcissist I've ever encountered at this forum, and those types are rare in my experience. Quite an honor in four months.

"Pretending to know my values"....Pot meet kettle, reread your ridiculous initial posting to me. And it isn't an anomoly, you pull that sh!t all the time with good, educated men here at this forum.
As a former teacher I had a good belly laugh over your 'book' stupidity.

Moving on, you're hitting the 'ignore' list--the abode of morons.. Damaged goods.

 

[Wyobohunter]

I do t think anyone is talking about burning books.

Actually, they were.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Meh, you might be the biggest narcissist I've ever encountered at this forum, and those types are rare in my experience. Quite an honor in four months.

"Pretending to know my values"....Pot meet kettle, reread your ridiculous initial posting to me. And it isn't an anomoly, you pull that sh!t all the time with good, educated men here at this forum.
As a former teacher I had a good belly laugh over your 'book' stupidity.

Moving on, you're hitting the 'ignore' list--the abode of morons.. Damaged goods.

Narcissist. That’s gotta be worth at least 50 cents to any former gym teacher.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Looks like you are mixing things up there partner. Communism is not necessarily undemocratic and capitalism is not necessarily democratic. There can be democratic communist societies and fascist capitalist societies. I know that doesn’t jive with how you’d like to view the world or how you’d like to imagine history happened. Sorry about your luck. You’d likely be more informed if you’d pick up a book. That doesn’t mean you’d have to step foot into an evil socialist library. You can buy books too.

Wow, sling some insults by insinuating that others don’t read enough or any books, particularly folks you know very little about. That is truly a next level rhetorical move. I somewhat understand your point (very rare for a society to operate under a 100% pure single system) but I would say democratic communist and fascist capitalist societies are a pretty rare paring; unless including Democratic in the name makes it a democratic society, ie DPRK, DDR. But that’s setting the bar pretty low.

Don’t you have a meeting at the Wyoming TF DEFEAT DIY NONRESIDENTS to be at?

 

[Wyobohunter]

Wow, sling some insults by insinuating that others don’t read enough or any books, particularly folks you know very little about. That is truly a next level rhetorical move. I somewhat understand your point (very rare for a society to operate under a 100% pure single system) but I would say democratic communist and fascist capitalist societies are a pretty rare paring; unless including Democratic in the name makes it a democratic society, ie DPRK, DDR. But that’s setting the bar pretty low.

Don’t you have a meeting at the Wyoming TF DEFEAT DIY NONRESIDENTS to be at?

Nah, that meeting is tomorrow. Tonight is the SRA (Socialist Rifle Association) meeting. Then I gotta hurry up to catch the last 1/2 of the BHA hug night event.

Glad I’m not the only one that doesn’t take me very seriously.

You made a solid point about the DPRK. They are no more democratic than the USSR was socialist. It’s just what they chose to call themselves. Maybe I should have just said that

 

[displacedtexan]

Jesus. This guy Ketcham. He sucks. The further I get into his book, the more I tire of his ranting.

I'm not saying there's not some good points in this book. There are. But, the points trying to be made in this book are disserviced by the author's constant childish, one sided ranting that doesn't provide any substance for many of the very opinionated statements he makes.

The book itself is a great idea and maybe could have shed some light on the issues at hand for someone that is in the ranching industry. This book really is only pandering emotions to the extremist environmental crowd that believes all animals should be given human rights. He's an Edward Abbey wannabe and does a poor job of it.

My rant is probably as bad as his haha. I went into it with an open mind and I generally am good at seeing both sides of the fence. This guy doesn't help though.

I was gonna poke at what you said in red with what you said in blue. Lol

I've got a very good friend who's Communist. She'd love you to crash afternoon beers.

 

[HaydenLane]

You made a solid point about the DPRK. They are no more democratic than the USSR was socialist. It’s just what they chose to call themselves. Maybe I should have just said that

It drives me crazy that people don’t find this obvious. I guess that’s what happens when buzzwords come to mean “whatever I disagree with.”

By definition, if there’s state control, it isn’t communist. Plenty of examples of states calling themselves something they aren’t past and present.

 

[displacedtexan]

It drives me crazy that people don’t find this obvious. I guess that’s what happens when buzzwords come to mean “whatever I disagree with.”

By definition, if there’s state control, it isn’t communist. Plenty of examples of states calling themselves something they aren’t past and present.

Imagine a world where words had standard meanings... You could have a book that listed words, and what they mean...

 

[Wyobohunter]

Imagine a world where words had standard meanings... You could have a book that listed words, and what they mean...

Sounds like elitist Oxford talk if you ask me.

 

[IdyllwildArcher]

Neither of those are actually examples of communism. Both are examples of state capitalism under the guise of communism. Economic types are rarely if ever purist. For example, we have plenty of “socialist” style programs in our generally capitalist country. The roads you drive on, the schools most of our kids go to, social security etc.

While some of what you say is true and the USA is definitely not a pure Democracy/Capitalist government/system, this tired defense of Socialism and even Communism by saying that it could survive in a democratic environment is just not consistent with history and please don't point at Scandinavia so I don't have to waste my time cutting down that non sequitur (who BTW are now joining NATO and increasing their defense budgets which will inevitably put a squeeze on their social programs).

People are selfish and governments collapse when not enough people are motivated by greed. Look at Greece. Everyone was on the government's payroll and given pensions after 20 years and they went bankrupt.

True Socialism and Communism have only ever survived under authoritarian regimes and that's not just a coincidence that needs a new social experiment. It just doesn't work.

USSR, Cuba, N. Korea, need I go on. Even China had to completely change up their "Communist" system fundamentally in order for the authoritarian regime to survive.

Socialism and Communism do not work because they don't work. They wouldn't work under a fully democratic government because people would (and have/do across the world on a regular basis) vote the system out. The only way they've remained in place (temporarily) is by brute force, suppression of freedom, persecution of political opposition, etc. And even then, they still fail eventually, but not before they result in famine (USSR, China, N. Korea, Cuba), mass atrocities, etc.

There's no perfect system, but we have the best you can get in the USA. It's great for other, smaller nations that get to have a few more social programs because we spend so much of our GDP on defense in order to keep the current hard-fought world order in place.

And while things could always use some tweaks to be better and adapt to changing times, fundamental changes to our governmental and financial institutions and systems will only drive humanity to WWIII or back to autocracy.


P.S. Wild horses should all be euthanized. They are NOT NATIVE. They were introduced by the Spaniards in the 1600s along with Small Pox.

 

[CoStick]

While some of what you say is true and the USA is definitely not a pure Democracy/Capitalist government/system, this tired defense of Socialism and even Communism by saying that it could survive in a democratic environment is just not consistent with history and please don't point at Scandinavia so I don't have to waste my time cutting down that non sequitur (who BTW are now joining NATO and increasing their defense budgets which will inevitably put a squeeze on their social programs).

People are selfish and governments collapse when not enough people are motivated by greed. Look at Greece. Everyone was on the government's payroll and given pensions after 20 years and they went bankrupt.

True Socialism and Communism have only ever survived under authoritarian regimes and that's not just a coincidence that needs a new social experiment. It just doesn't work.

USSR, Cuba, N. Korea, need I go on. Even China had to completely change up their "Communist" system fundamentally in order for the authoritarian regime to survive.

Socialism and Communism do not work because they don't work. They wouldn't work under a fully democratic government because people would (and have/do across the world on a regular basis) vote the system out. The only way they've remained in place (temporarily) is by brute force, suppression of freedom, persecution of political opposition, etc. And even then, they still fail eventually, but not before they result in famine (USSR, China, N. Korea, Cuba), mass atrocities, etc.

There's no perfect system, but we have the best you can get in the USA. It's great for other, smaller nations that get to have a few more social programs because we spend so much of our GDP on defense in order to keep the current hard-fought world order in place.

And while things could always use some tweaks to be better and adapt to changing times, fundamental changes to our governmental and financial institutions and systems will only drive humanity to WWIII or back to autocracy.


P.S. Wild horses should all be euthanized. They are NOT NATIVE. They were introduced by the Spaniards in the 1600s along with Small Pox.

You certainly need capitalism to drive competition and growth. That being said social security and Medicare are big impacts. I would guess most over 65 would struggle without them. For those the higher taxes for benefit seems to work. It amazes me we haven’t expanded Medicare, the structure is already in place.

 

[2buffalo]

Easy button to get rid of trolls...