Mtn lion(s) kill 15 dogs in 30 days (Colorado)

[NE Herd Bull]

An aside to the primary conversation.
With my apologies for sidetracking the thread

I am reminded by the photo, in the OP article, of Sasha Siemel
Who primarily hunted South & Central American Jaguar armed only only with a spear.

Sasha Siemel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I believe that Capstick wrote about Mr Siemel's adventures in "Death in the Silent Places".
I have this in my library, and will need to dust it off and enjoy it again.
Hair raising stuff in this series of books.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Not trying to be a jerk, but offering one contradictory data point (altho I don't have the article fresh at hand to bac it up...)

About 10-12 years ago, 2-3 women were walking their dogs on a hiking trail in Anchorage Alaska. It was wintertime, and snow was on the ground. Some wolves appeared on the hiking trail, and tried to take the woman's dog while she and the other women screamed at it. This woman professed that up to that point she had been on the "wolves are basically harmless" bandwagon, but after what she saw firsthand, she said that she needed to alter her viewpoint and acknowledge that wolves could pose some danger, even in a metropolitan setting.

There was also a case 10-15 years back where a pack of wolves tracked a woman who was jogging in a rural Alaskan village, ran her down and killed her. She was a schoolteacher I believe.

Those are some crazy stories! Thanks for sharing them!

I mentioned in an earlier post that, in my opinion, Alaska wildlife is on a whole different level from our critters in the lower 48. I base that opinion purely on the differences in habitat and human interaction.

Who knows though, maybe down the road CO wolves will behave the same way. Certainly a few isolated events are possible.

 

[Fatcamp]

Is that a SW?

Pretty cool, huh?

Dude was for real.

The Jaguar Hunter - Frontier Partisans

...a tribute to a modern-day hunter who's specialty was battling jaguars with mankind’s most venerable weapon. Talking about the great Sasha Siemel.

frontierpartisans.com

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Typical Illinois response. How are you people taught to live up there in that country anyway?

Typical ignorant response. I've lived in the Midwest for 7 years. Do you know where else I've lived and what I've experienced in my life?

Nope. Thats egg on your face, ma'am.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

Dont forget that wolves have been known to kill the fuzzy bears while they hibernate in their dens too. Sweet Sweet furry animals for sure.

They also leave the toilet seat up and cheat on their taxes. Vermin, for sure! Haha

I'd think killing bears would be a trait you guys would appreciate?

 

[FLATHEAD]

I would love to hunt Jaguar.
If only.

 

[Fatcamp]

Are those hunting dogs running loose or are they suburban house pets?

I rest my case.

I think you are trolling, TBH. If you live in Northern Illinois you know damn well what's gone on with livestock, hound, and pet predation by wolves in Wisconsin. Or you are willfully ignorant of the facts just like you were about compensation for livestock losses.

I'm all for predators on the landscape just as I am all for putting bullets in them on a regular basis when they get too bold. But denying how much damage they do and have done is not factually honest.

Managing predators by feeling versus fact is popular. Hence the situation the folks in Nederland find themselves.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I've got a free roaming neighbor cat that I keep waiting for
the coyotes to get. Dont know how he's lasted this long.

 

[PathFinder]

Right, I wasn't referring to hounds as wimps. I wasn't clear on that so I'm glad you pointed that out.

With that said, I don't see why it should be anyone's concern if a hunter loses some dogs to predation. There are risks involved in pretty much any activity and by engaging it that activity, you assume the risks. Exterminating wolves to extinction because a small percentage of people want to let their dogs run free just doesn't sound right to me.

I can absolutely understand why you feel the way you do though.

Fwiw, I love dogs and have owned them most of my life so I don't revel in the idea of someone's pup getting killed or maimed. Because I loved my dogs and wanted to keep them safe, I never let them roam free. I understand hunting dogs are working dogs and that you all love them just as much. I guess we just differ on how much risk we're willing to take with them.

Lastly, I don't know what you define as "rural western living" so I'm going to leave that alone and agree that, by your definition, I must be ignorant.

Thanks for the conversation!

You're absolutely correct about the risk when turning a dog out. Risk is present whether wolves are in the area or not; there's always a chance that the dog isn't coming back for one reason or another. Despite the risk, the mortality rate in areas absent of wolves isn't very high.
In the case of the dogs in the article, the risk is present as a result of two things: first, the choice to live in that area and second, the choice not to allow houndsmen to give the lions a healthy fear of dogs and humans.
From my perspective, the wolf question is completely different. When we're hunting specific game, the risk comes from two main sources; the terrain (cliffs, rivers, roads, etc) and the game we're pursuing. When wolves are added to the equation, that's a very different and exponentially greater risk. In my view, the risk wolves pose is highly unnatural. It exists because individuals with absolutely no investment in the game mandated the artificial introduction of a non-native predator species. People who do not live, hunt, ranch, or otherwise invest in western wildlife are free to have whatever opinion they want. However, it should be recognized that such an opinion is of no actionable value whatsoever. All power of policy should belong wholly to actual stakeholders. Residents of Nederland are actual stakeholders who made the wrong choice. Front range urbanites aren't stakeholders in Colorado wildlife, ranching, or hunting.

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

I think you are trolling, TBH. If you live in Northern Illinois you know damn well what's gone on with livestock, hound, and pet predation by wolves in Wisconsin. Or you are willfully ignorant of the facts just like you were about compensation for livestock losses.

I'm all for predators on the landscape just as I am all for putting bullets in them on a regular basis when they get too bold. But denying how much damage they do and have done is not factually honest.

Managing predators by feeling versus fact is popular. Hence the situation the folks in Nederland find themselves.

I want to reply and refute your statements but, truthfully, some of them are too generalized. Which things have I written that indicates to you that I'm trolling, being willfully ignorant about, or am saying out of feelings (rather than logic)?

This thread was about CO cougars preying on people's house pets and how the laws don't allow people to defend against them. A few guys brought wolves into the discussion. I pointed out that wolves don't behave that way. Then everything spiraled into hunting dogs, livestock, blah blah blah,....like it always does.

Now a bunch of people, arguably emotional people, are coming at me from many different directions. Some have insightful points, others are just dumb. I'm doing my best here to keep up but it's difficult.

I will say that I was largely ignorant of the issues until this past year. Even the WI issues, despite living only 10 mins from the border. I've been doing my best to get up to speed these last 6 months and I'm willing to wager that I've spent incredibly more time researching it then most of the clowns that try to insult me.

I wasn't being "willfully ignorant" about anything. Sometimes I'm just plain ignorant on something. At least I admit to it though. How about you guys? Can you all admit to being wrong or even able to consider that your knowledge may lack in areas?

Lastly, NO, I am not trolling. If you put your personal feelings aside and read thru everything I've written here, maybe you'll understand my POV better. I don't expect you to agree with me but maybe you'll understand why it's bullshit to dismiss my thoughts as "trolling".

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

You're absolutely correct about the risk when turning a dog out. Risk is present whether wolves are in the area or not; there's always a chance that the dog isn't coming back for one reason or another. Despite the risk, the mortality rate in areas absent of wolves isn't very high.
In the case of the dogs in the article, the risk is present as a result of two things: first, the choice to live in that area and second, the choice not to allow houndsmen to give the lions a healthy fear of dogs and humans.
From my perspective, the wolf question is completely different. When we're hunting specific game, the risk comes from two main sources; the terrain (cliffs, rivers, roads, etc) and the game we're pursuing. When wolves are added to the equation, that's a very different and exponentially greater risk. In my view, the risk wolves pose is highly unnatural. It exists because individuals with absolutely no investment in the game mandated the artificial introduction of a non-native predator species. People who do not live, hunt, ranch, or otherwise invest in western wildlife are free to have whatever opinion they want. However, it should be recognized that such an opinion is of no actionable value whatsoever. All power of policy should belong wholly to actual stakeholders. Residents of Nederland are actual stakeholders who made the wrong choice. Front range urbanites aren't stakeholders in Colorado wildlife, ranching, or hunting.

Thank you for the breakdown on risks and your POV. I think you have a very reasonable opinion on the matter. I would ask more questions and respond to some of your points but then the thread would probably get locked for being way off topic. Another time!

Take care!

 

[Gadjet]

What grain weight spear head should one use for a lion spear........asking for a friend.....

Whatever grain you choose, just make sure you use hollow point!

 

[HighUintas]

"People who do not live, hunt, ranch, or otherwise invest in western wildlife are free to have whatever opinion they want. However, it should be recognized that such an opinion is of no actionable value whatsoever. All power of policy should belong wholly to actual stakeholders"

Hmm. So the shit head front range suburbanites who voted for wolf reintroduction aren't part of the American citizen collective? I agree that it sucks they have power to influence public land in such a way, but to remove that power from them would suggest that our public land should all be owned by the states or municipalities. I'm glad that's not the case because the shit bag Mike Lees of the country would have sold off 75% if all public land to the highest bidder by this time.

 

[HighUintas]

What's the FOC on that spear? Definitely not high enough. Dude needs to add a brass insert.

 

[TheGDog]

But what is your favorite color?


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"Red...No, Blue! AHHHHHhhhh....!!!!"

 

[JustSomeGuy35]

But denying how much damage they do and have done is not factually honest.

When did I deny the damage that wolves do? Not one of you have shown me any proof that wolves are hopping people's fences and eating their pets! All you guys have done is keep posting about hunting dogs and livestock.

Try to follow along with the discussion better before making false claims about me.

 

[Billy Goat]

@JustSomeGuy35 do you garden?

 

[sneaky]

I like how the one guy is now carrying a spear for protection.

Bowmaring

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[JustSomeGuy35]

@JustSomeGuy35 do you garden?

Yes, I do. I also have a small orchard.

 

[sneaky]

Yep stole my line.

S S S ...ph ck these CO. P & W lunatics, those local people need to take control of their animals and lives.
Colorado is a s-hole. Idaho's Gov would likely tell F&G to resolve this or for folks to kill the damn cats.

100% that here there wouldn't even be the thought of charges being pressed. Sun Valley is overran with the dang things. Coincidence that it's also a wolf lover haven and full of Californians and New Yorkers? Probably not.

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