Mountain Goat caliber in Kimber Montana?

[elkguide]

Good discussion and good thoughts.

People often talk about "overkill" and I can't figure out what is beyond dead (other than dead in his tracks, maybe) so I want all of the rifle that I can comfortably shoot. The OP seemed to be talking about one rifle to do it all, (another idea that I don't understand) so that means if he wants to have a lightweight do it all, he would need a rifle that he could load up or down and the 30's cover that with the greatest selection of bullets.

In my world, if I am going to take the recoil of a 30, I want to get the best "bang for my buck." (sorry couldn't help myself) The venerable '06 does this well but there is such a little difference in recoil, I want all that I can get and that puts me into the .300's. There are many there, H&H, Norma, Win and WSM are the main players but looking for the "one" rifle, I'll go with the likely availability of ammo at the local gas station and that points me to the .300 Win Mag. Now I have several .300 Win Mags but none are factory lightweights. (I have a couple custom .300 Win Mags and they get grabbed regularly to hunt with.) The only factory lightweight .30 that I have is a Kimber Montana in .300 WSM.

I was at my bench in the backyard with the Kimber and with an old Ruger 77 in .300 Win Mag the other day and while there was a little bit more recoil from the Kimber (6 pounds 14 ounces) vs the Ruger (8 pounds 13 ounces) for that one hunting shot in the mountains, I'm carrying the Kimber.

So to the OP, from my experience and from my biased opinion, if I were going to buy one new do it all rifle, for most all big game,

I'd buy a Kimber Montana in .300 Win Mag.

 

[DRUSS]

I own a 270,280,280AI,30/06,30/06AI,300wsm,300WM. and think all would serve you well. I have looked at the 338/06 and its quite intriguing in its own ways too. with all you are looking at though surprised nobody has suggested the 30/06 AI. good velocities extra round in magazine and the lighter action still??????

 

[hooker]

Muttly,

Keep the Roberts, enjoy the lack of recoil and go kill everything you want to.

 

[luke moffat]

The great debate, part twenty eight, or thereabouts.. Getting married in August, so theres a bit of a spending freeze on bows, guns, and such, which gives me plenty of time to ponder, plot, and scheme in the eternal quest for the next great "this is the last one, the ultimate, after this, I,ll be set for life" class of firearm, at least, till the next one..

Picked up the first Montana this last fall, a two fitty seven Bob. And became hooked on light rifles within the first two shots. Had a screaming deal on a .264 Win Mag round the same time, a Win 70. Have a sneaking suspicion it might be cheaper and easier to buy a Montana in a larger caliber than to try and put the .264 on a diet?.. Caliber wise the .264 might be pretty skookum for goat, but no first hand experience in that regard.

So I find myself thinking that probably the path of least resistance is to somewhere along the way round up a Montana in a more goat/bear/moose/ miscellaneous big, and or tough critter worthy caliber.

Not ruling out the Mountain Ascent, looking at both. I,m thinking the likeliest suspects are the 84L, long action size. 270.. Not sure if theres much, if any gain over the .264, other than weight. On the other hand, I,ve probably got 250-300 rounds of .270, dies and whatnot from the last one I had, but currently 270-less. Had a nice load worked up with 150 A-Frames, pretty accurate in the last gun, should oughta almost do the job on goat shoulders. I think..??..

280 Ackley. Seems like it would be a fun new caliber, get a little more weight in the bullets. Think 160s would be a good start, not sure if 175s are likely to do well out of the 280? Also, no longer terribly opposed to muzzle brakes, so with or without a brake, think the recoil should still be fairly pleasant even in a light rifle. No prior experience with 7s of any sort, so open to suggestion.

30-06. I don,t have one. I,ve recommended, considered, and been surprised on occasion that I don,t actually have one. More frontal area.. God knows there,s ammo for it anywhere. In plenty of different weights. As far as reach, don,t know that I,m likely to be shooting at any critters any where past 300 yards, if that far, so long range ability, though nice to have, might be a non issue.. And I can,t help thinking 180s oughta be effective.. So at this point, I,ve still got a pretty light rifle, fairly short barell, and what I THINK should be plenty of bullet weight?sectional density..

300 WSM. The dark horse, at this point. Few ounces heavier, think the barrel is still 24". Don,t recall ever picking up a WSM Montana, so for those that have them, are the stock dimensions any different, thicker, or do they feel the same in the hand and balance wise as the 270/30-06 size?
Enough of a performance gain over the 30-06 to go up in gun weight and powder burned?

I reload, so not too worried about ammo, but ht ability to walk into a store and grab ammo definetly does,nt hurt.

300 Win Mag. Seems like an easy choice as far as bullet weight, reach, and ability to get brass, bullets, and such. But getting into the longer barrel again, and a scoshe over a lb heavier, if comparing the weights of the Mtn Ascent. And either more recoil, or use the muzzle brake..
And, in a Montana, not really thinking it,s going to be a long range rig, but wondering if it hits em enough harder in the 100 to 300 yards sort of range to justify the extra weight and recoil?

7 Rem Mag. Seems pretty similar arguements for and against as the 300 Win Mag, but maybe a little better balance of recoil and reach?

338-06. Would require a rebore or rebarrel, any 84L Montana should be a good start.. Good bullet selection, looks like 180s would have the same velocity, maybe better than out of the 06, more frontal area, and the ability to sling 210s at a pretty good clip. Which has a certain appeal!!
Should be brass aplenty, weight still ain,t much over 6 1/2 lbs scoped, and I think it should be a good all rounder for Alaska... Lighter rifle I believe than a 325 WSM, better bullet selection, don,t see too many down sides to this one. Has oddball appeal in its favor as well!

9.3x62. This one seems unlikely, but I,ve got plenty of brass and bullets, and a couple rifles, so I thought I might just as well toss it out there..

Looking for suggestions, thoughts, comments, etc.

Thanks in advance and I apologize for the long winded post!!

I have been away from the forum some this past few weeks but someone PM'd me and asked me to comment so here I am take it for what its worth.

Man you are looking at a lot of options and in reality all will work for certain. I have personally witness 24 goats killed with the following cailbers. 270, 280 AI, 308 win, 30-06, 300 WM, 300 WSM, 325 WSM, 338 WM, 375 Ruger.

I have witnessed the same amount roughly grizzly/brown bears taken with basically the same calibers used in most cases. I will say that IMO goats are tougher to kill than the bears in my experience atleast.

I have and still shoot a .308 win and my wife in fact will be using her 308 win on her Kodiak brown bear tag we are hunting here in less than a week and a half. Its a great caliber and will be taking mine when I go for sheep, caribou, and deer. I used a 325 WSM for a season and it does well on goats too but the odd ball caliber of the 8mm wasn't as fun so I built a Kimber 338-06 cause I could build a lighter gun and have it in a 4+1 configuration than the WSMs which are 3+1. Plus I can shoot 250s or even 300 grainers if I want verse basically topping out at 220 with the 325 WSM. I am backing my wife up next week with a 250 grain a-frame out of my 338-06 which should work just fine.

For me the 338-06 strikes a sweet spot as I use the 210s for dang near everything but coastal bears and thats just cause I want to shoot 250s for the heck of it. Will it kill better than a standard 30-06 with a good 180 grain accubond or something, likely no way to prove that, but I wanted something a bit different and I wanted a more substantial jump up from my 308 Kimbers and a 30-06 wasn't big enough and I didn't want the extra weight of the Kimber WSMs or go to 3+1. So thats where I landed and what I will be using for goats this fall. However, like I said, any of the cartridges listed above obviously worked for goats as where you put the bullet will always trump the headstamp on the brass.

Personally I would be more concerned with what you want in a rifle (weight, 4+1 vs. 3+1, action type CRF vs push feed, safety style, stock design, amount of aftermarket upgrades available if that matters and whatever else strikes your fancy) as that will help dictate which rifle and caliber might work for your criteria.

Hope I helped and didn't further muddy the waters.

I will say you are right to be getting something that packs a bit more heat than a .257 bob, it would certainly still work, but a bit more oomph on goats is never a bad thing.

 

[Muttly]

Lot of food for thought, appreciate ALL the replies!!

Never have warmed up to push feed, part of the appeal of the Kimbers. Absolutely love the balance of the little .257, so the desire to keep the same weight, balance and feel probably wins out over ballistics. The Missus wants to try her hand at goat hunting too, hence a desire for a light, well balanced rifle that she will shoot and enjoy using. Made up a 338-06 dummy round, got my hands on a 338-06 Ackley round too, just for the fun of it. Like the looks of both rounds, think recoil in a light rifle might be a little over board for her. Made the mistake of letting her shoot a fairly light 9.3x62 few years ago. Now that she,s shooting a rifle, and liking it, don,t want to mess that up. She likes the feel of the .257, so it seems like a no brainer to get a nother bigger Bob, sort of.

30-06 always seems like a safe bet, I,ve got brass, bullets, dies, but no gun. Bound to get one sooner or later.. For some reason, I keep going back to the 280 Ackley.
Don,t really think it,s gonna do everything a 7mm will in a lighter gun with less recoil, but I do think it,ll do a pretty good job with a little less recoil than either an 06 or a 7mm. Paying attention to some of the results Stid has posted, think it a 280 should do fine in the 140-150-160 grain range. Having heard the recoil of an un-braked 280 Mtn Ascent described as "mild, to very mild', has a certain appeal, can,t imagine it being much worse than a 270 Montana. Extra round in compared to a WSM action is something I like, would prefer the option of being able to take an extra-extra shot if necessary.

Won,t deny the gee-whiz factor of a new caliber though!

 

[micus]

If you aren't going to shoot anything heavier than a 180 then the WSM dominates your outlined criteria. Your getting the biggest FPS/Ftlb per gr of powder burned with the bullet selection of .308 Cal projectiles all in a short action....