Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols

Many of you guys are baffling me. I am an average shooter at best and also cross eye dominant - and I can shoot the shit out of a G19 with very little effort. Bought mine as a beat up police trade in and had Glock install a new trigger. They might not be for everyone, but I have never found Glocks to be as nitpicky and difficult to shoot as many people make the out to be. For grizz country G20 gets my vote. Non grizz, G19 or P365.
 
@Jake Larsen , I had also considered the x macro... Maybe that instead of the 365 xl. Starting to get them mixed up haha.

Does the comp not obscure sight picture at all for fast follow-up? I had written off the comp due to that possibility and the fact that I don't wear e as r protection hunting
 
But, you saw me with the Keltec PMR30, 😂 I have low standards. That pistol is easy to shoot and put lead on target. I now track with Form’s arguments about bear protection… same for people protection.
Which ammo was it that the gun wasn’t as happy with? You switched to something else and it ran the rest of the day with no hiccup.

I also have a PMR30 and plan to try it this spring/summer as main field/daily carry in place of my old reliable CZ 75 SP01.

I want to carry ammo that feeds no hiccups and kills well. @Formidilosus ?
 
@Jake Larsen , I had also considered the x macro... Maybe that instead of the 365 xl. Starting to get them mixed up haha.

Does the comp not obscure sight picture at all for fast follow-up? I had written off the comp due to that possibility and the fact that I don't wear e as r protection hunting

I’ve owned the XL and X macro. The macro is considerably better for me. I’m a pretty average sized guy. 5-10 and 180 lbs, 31” waist. IWB carry the X Macro, and it feels considerably better in my hand than the XL did. I’ve had zero issues with the comp. Follow ups are noticeably faster with the comp, due to less muzzle rise. It’ll definitely be loud if I have to use it on a bear, but at that point, I’m not worried about my ears.


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How does this one feel weight wise? I really want one someday, but often talk myself out of it.

That little bit of extra weight is where the magic happens. It’s so well balanced in the hand, it’s hard to explain unless you’ve shot one. I’ve done a side by side comparison with the standard Macro, and it was eye opening. I’ll gladly carry that extra few ounces


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I understand that is the common belief/advise- however; how does shooting a mag of ammo through a pistol, help the average male- that has no skill with a pistol, find the “best” one for him?
It’s equivalent to someone that can’t drive but wants to start rally car racing- and then telling them that jumping behind the wheel and test driving all of the options so they can find the one that “drives” best…. they have no idea what they are doing.


He/they have no skill level and no knowledge of what the differences are. There aren’t large enough differences in the pistols being discussed for the average adult male to matter in “feel”, and they won’t shoot any of them well enough at a rental range for the difference in shooting to show up…. Well, if they do, they will almost certainly choose a 1911 or 2011 (or a Shadow 2).
I’ve been involved in legitimate performance testing between pistols, and there are no surprises. People aren’t special, and baring a major permanent injury- everyone shoots the same guns best.







I have significantly more experience with pistols and training others on pistols, than I do with rifles. Far more. Significant use of Beretta M9’s, Glock’s in 9mm, 40, and 45 from Gen 2 to G5, Sig P320/M17/M18, Sig P229 and 226’s, Sig P365, HK’s, various CZ’s, 1911’s, 2011’s, etc. etc.

People shoot the same pistols the best, regardless of how they think or feel about it. Well built 1911’s are unmatched yet in pistols. Then well built 2011’s. Then CZ’s like the Shadow 2- though a few will shoot them better than 2011’s after the first DA pull. People perform better with P320’s than they do Glocks. P365’s are shot better then G48 and 43’s. Etc etc.

Going by feel at a rental range, lots of)maybe most) will pick a HK VP9 or Sig 226/228/etc. Or some Walther.


We're tracking very closely here, including with myself having shot out pistol barrels (1911 and Sig 229), and having had to have one high-cap 1911's rails stretched/widened when being rebuilt, from shooting it loose with wear. I was having carry-comp high-cap 1911s built for me before Staccato was STI. Everything you've said about which guns shoot best for any random selection of shooters, I've seen the same thing.

Where we disagree seems to be in how to help a random hunter find a handgun that meets all his needs, balanced between size, cost, weight, and what he'll hit best with. The specific point of where we differ seems to be in me recognizing he's got some shooting experience, vs being treated as though he's some joe off the street with no background in shooting at all. Were he that, then I'd agree with you about the utility of a rental range day being non-existent.

But he is not a 16yo kid being told to go drive a Lambo around the track, and that's where the analogy falls short. If he's experienced with hunting and general shooting, short of having an instructor walk him through a selection of reliable handguns and balancing out what seems to be the best match for his needs, then doing it on his own at a rental shop and seeing which hits best will. And some will hit better than others, with just a mag or two in experimentation with each, out of that selection. Which you have already acknowledged. Whether or not that one fits his budget or use-case needs is different.

If your point is that too many people just think they can just go fondle some handguns and will 'know' which will hit best based on feelsies, then I agree, that's dumb. But his example, trying out a selection of reliable handguns, is not that. It's about finding which reliable handgun inherently shoots the most accurately for him, with the least amount of experience with it.

Regardless of how the trends of "what shoots best" definitely do lean towards 1911s, CZs, Sig 200-series (after the DA pull), etc, there are absolutely real trends on how different hand-shapes lend towards different guns fitting and shooting better for individual shooters. You will see it most clearly in situations and training scenarios of extreme-pressure and minimal sensory advantage. Especially with iron-sight night shooting without NODs or white light, in drills without sights entirely, and in situations of mental and physical exhaustion. The guns that fit best do shoot and hit best, for that individual. Big institutions hate this reality because it kills uniformity and expands costs, but orgs not needing to worry about that are a different story. When someone is paired up with a gun they shoot most accurately with in those situations, it absolutely does transfer over to also needing the least amount of range time to get them reliably lethal under pressure.
 
Which ammo was it that the gun wasn’t as happy with? You switched to something else and it ran the rest of the day with no hiccup.

I also have a PMR30 and plan to try it this spring/summer as main field/daily carry in place of my old reliable CZ 75 SP01.

I want to carry ammo that feeds no hiccups and kills well. @Formidilosus ?

He recommended Speer Gold Dot 40gr ammo when I talked to him about the PMR30 I bought.
 
G45 is great.

G48 is a G43x with longer slide.

I carry G43x in my bino harness because its thinner but shoot G45 in competition.

The slide length doesn't seem to matter for hits at pistol range. But coming out of a holster the G45 sight radius is right where I point. With longer G34 when I come up I have to make a slight correction. The G43x is not as enjoyable to shoot as the G45 but better to carry


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That might be the most I've ever seen carried on ones' chest.
 
Have owned most on your list and I’ll give my .02.

Glocks are good at what they are but are harder to shoot well IMO. Many people can, they have a ton of aftermarket support, but I just don’t love them as much as other options and don’t believe that they objectively are as easy to shoot well as other options. I have small hands and prefer the 48 to the 19, but still cannot shoot it as well as others.

I prefer the p365/macro/axg legion line of pistols than the Glock 19s I have had. I believe the p365 macro is one of the best options out there for price/performance/reliability/supportability/shoot-ability/ and capacity. The p365 AXG Legion is my favorite sub 2k handgun.

Staccatos are excellent guns. I EDC the staccato C the majority of the time and love it. They are a notch above. They do perform better. They do cost more. It’s probably my favorite handgun.

I’d also recommend you get a Springfield echelon in your hand. I have both the full size and the compact and IMO, they are better versions of the Glock 17/19. Ergos, direct optics mount, triggers, etc.

Good luck - shoot what you get a lot and get comfortable with whatever platform you chose!


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Which ammo was it that the gun wasn’t as happy with? You switched to something else and it ran the rest of the day with no hiccup.

I also have a PMR30 and plan to try it this spring/summer as main field/daily carry in place of my old reliable CZ 75 SP01.

I want to carry ammo that feeds no hiccups and kills well. @Formidilosus ?
The bad stuff was Speer self defense with nickel plated brass. What’s left of that goes in my little rifle.

The stuff that ran like a champ was the Federal stuff that comes in a bottle 😂 It’s a lead bullet in brass cases.
 
my picks...
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So, @Formidilosus and @RockAndSage ,

It is sounding like in my scenario, being a pistol neophyte, the choice is mainly based on my weight/size/financial budget and the hierarchy of proven shootability and reliability of various models.

It seems that maybe the general recommendation is to identify a few options based on known reliability and shootability, within a weight/size/financial budget, pick one and put in the time to become proficient... And maybe factor in what I shoot best at a rental range.

I'd absolutely get with someone that is very experienced prior to, but know no one in my area that fits this bill.
 
my picks...
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I've looked into those Dan Wessons... But if I'm spending 2k then I'm spending $2600 instead for a staccato haha. Maybe never shot either one but the pictures of Forms staccato loaded brass shavings and gunk but still working kinda has me sold
 
So, @Formidilosus and @RockAndSage ,

It is sounding like in my scenario, being a pistol neophyte, the choice is mainly based on my weight/size/financial budget and the hierarchy of proven shootability and reliability of various models.

It seems that maybe the general recommendation is to identify a few options based on known reliability and shootability, within a weight/size/financial budget, pick one and put in the time to become proficient... And maybe factor in what I shoot best at a rental range.

I'd absolutely get with someone that is very experienced prior to, but know no one in my area that fits this bill.


Yes. Quite frankly with what you say you want it for, I the only real logical choice is a P365 with thumb safety. I would personally swap the grip module for a better one, but that pistol is made for what you want to do.
 
Having shot rifles in competition and because I just love punching holes in paper, that has given me the handgun itch. I've owned a few including Rugers, Glocks, Kimbers, Sigs, Staccatos, Springfields, S&W, Brown and Atlas. Yes, the 2011/1911s are a lot smoother and easier to shoot accurately for me but if you're looking for self-defense which translates to up close and personal with reliability, I'd go with a Sig 365.
Don't get me wrong, when I grab a handgun to shoot in the back yard it's almost always an Atlas but you're talking about a lot of money. (But oh, what fun!!!!)
 
How a pistol 'feels' - I agree with your point on that. But he didn't suggest he'd be going to a gun store to fondle a dozen for feels. He said rental. And short of having an instructor walk him through the exact same selection of guns, doing it at a rental range himself will inform him best on which if these guns will work best for him. Each is a solid option for reliability, leaving the biggest variable the one he hits best with.

Handguns aren't the same as rifles - how they fit in your individual hand has far more impact on how well someone inherently shoots one, without significant training. They each sit in a person's hands differently, and point differently. A crappy match can be trained out, but it's far better to find the one that naturally fits, points, and shoots best, if someone's not going to be putting 10k rounds downrange on Bill drills, Mozambiques, or B-8s at 25yds.
I couldn’t agree more with that last paragraph.

To the OP, go handle a bunch and see what feels best to you.

I’m an hk guy, love my MK23, but have gone to a vp9 for edc. Although, I picked up a 365 legion and have about 800 rounds through it….nice.
 
My most carried EDC is an old (2003 purchased) Gen 3 G19. 25,000 rds through mine and never any issues other than some old steel-cased Wolf fodder that gave me a few FTE stoppages many moons ago.

Picked up a Sig P365 a couple years back and though I have less than 1200 rds through it I am amazed at how easy it is to shoot well considering how small it is?

My FAVORITE 9x19 handgun however, is the HK USP compact. Not cheap with a street price around a grand these days but holy chit does it shoot. Like the grip angle on the USP better than on the Glock, also.

Another good 9x19 is the CZ P-07 and P-09. Can’t go wrong with either of those two.
 
I have about every pistol mentioned in this thread and shoot them a lot. Get a p365 x macro (non comp) or g19. I'd guess most people would prefer the p365 based just on feel, find a range and shoot both if possible. A high end 2011/1911 is not what you are looking for. Spend the $1500 extra on ammo/training.
 
S&W 500 wheel gun. You need a massive gun for bears, and most reliable is a revolver. No need to rely your life on that Tupperware crap that the gay boys use.

On a serious note, id do a G19 for a good all around gun, replace the trigger like mentioned. Or step up and get something sexy like a FN509c.

I wouldn't fess with anything over a 9mm. Especially going into the fact of tariffs and cost of ammo. Good bullets for 9mm and they will kill a griz.
 
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