Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols

[Thegman]

I don’t like the grip angle of the Glock. I found the Canik easiest to shoot.

I also find the full size Canik easier to shoot faster and more accurately than the G17, partly because of the grip angle, and partly because of the great trigger in the SA model. The Canik has been the easiest striker fired 9mm to shoot well, for me. Maybe because it's the most similar to shooting a 1911, compared to others, IME.

All that said, if it works well for you, the G19 might be awfully tough to beat.

Now, let me go Mall Ninja for a second: One thing I at least think about with an auto for bear defense is if the frame extends to the end of slide the to help the slide resist being pushed out of battery.

Needing a handgun for actual bear defense is EXTREMELY unlikely, but if I'm going so far as to carry one, may as well consider all the angles. When the extremely unlikely does happen, actual contact with said offender isn't all that uncommon.

 

[pacoalcracker]

I'm going to make it pretty simple. In the security world just about everywhere on the planet, the pistol they carry most is a G19...period. I carry one too.

 

[HighUintas]

Glocks are the Tikkas of the pistol world - pro is their reliability, biggest downside is their trigger pull, especially if you're used to a crisp trigger. They run forever, and require the least amount of maintenance.

2011s and 1911s in general are like the samurai swords of the pistol world - they can be absolutely elite in helping you take care of business, but require more operator competence. Biggest pro is how much easier they are to hit with, largely due to their triggers, but their biggest con is that they require more knowledge and maintenance discipline if you're staking your life on them. They also are typically heavier than Glocks and other polymer-framed pistols.

Sigs are an excellent middle-ground between Glocks and 1911s. Polymer-framed P365s might very well be your optimal choice for lightweight, reliable, high-capacity, and small footprint. Biggest downside might be the striker-fired trigger (you're essentially cocking back the 'firing pin' with the trigger pull on striker-fired guns), but they're far better than factory Glock triggers, and aren't that much of an issue.

If a crisp trigger pull is prioritized, a Sig P226, 228, or 229 will give you that, especially with their single-action only variants. The SAO variants are, essentially, like 1911s but more reliable and less maintenance-reliant. Biggest pros are that you get the better triggers and shootability of 1911s, biggest cons are they're all-metal and will be a bit heavier than a polymer gun.

As was mentioned by someone above, the best thing you can do is go to a range and rent a few different ones. Out of those, go with the one that you naturally hit the best with, with the least amount of practice - it's an indicator of it best fitting your hand and body structure most naturally, and will be the most likely to hit for you under extreme pressure.

Oh man. That opens another can of worms. I didn't know anything about the p22x series. After looking into the p229 da/sa vs sa, that sounds like a great way to go as well if that 30oz weight isn't an issue. Thanks!

Truth is, the majority of us big game hunters don’t practice with our handguns enough to be as proficient as we should in a true life or death bear charge situation.

I have heard this so many times and it parallels with rifle proficiency. I plan on training as much as I can afford, because there's no reason to carry one if i can't operate it effectively

The Glock Performance Trigger is a worthy upgrade.

Is that a factory trigger option? From what I've seen..... You shouldn't mess with the factory configs so I hadn't planned on it

 

[ElPollo]

I'm starting to look at pistols to carry while hunting and hiking as I'll be moving to an area with higher bear pop in a year or two. I haven't owned one and have minimal experience shooting a pistol.

I don't know if I'll buy one this year , but thought I should get one and become confident with it before moving.

Goal and use:
- probably won't conceal carry
- no competition plans
- mostly for backpacking, hunting, etc. So, lightweight. Not so small it hinders shootability
- 9mm
- great in reliability in factory (or nearly) form. I want a Tikka pistol. Shoot it dirty for it's life and it still works
- shootability - I've read Glocks are not particularly shootable
- speed - as it's mainly for bear protection, I want to be able to put as many rounds as quickly as I can into poi
- I don't really want to "need" to upgrade. One and done purchase.
- not sure on optic ... If it truly would help with speed and accuracy, then maybe. But it's another failure point to deal with
- prefer to have manual safety

That said, I've been looking into Glocks, Sig, and staccato.

- g19, g45, g48 - maybe g43 or 43x but they seem too small
- p320 m18, p320 x compact, p320 x carry, p365xl
- staccato c or cs

First question... Would I actually see any of the benefit of the staccato unless I became an extremely good shooter?

Because the g45 and g48 seem to be variants of the g19, are they just as reliable?

Does a slimmer grip generally hurt or hinder shootability (g48 vs g45)? I realize it's probably just a personal thing

Is there much difference in reliability between the Glocks and the p320/p365? Much difference in reliability between the different p320 models?

Having not carried a pistol before... For backpack hunters where weight/space is a concern, would a subcompact be better or are the sizes of those above small enough to not be an issue? (Again, probably personal preference)

Also, yes there is a range with rentals nearby and I'll do that before purchasing

Out of the guns you’ve mentioned, my pick would be the P365xl. Lighter and thinner than full sized guns but with reasonable capacity and still very shootable. They are reliable and handle shooting dirty as long as you lube them. And you can get them with a safety, although mine doesn’t have one. I probably have somewhere north of 4k rounds through mine.

The Glock grip angle and grip ergos have never worked for me. They are reliable and durable, but I would have to spend a lot more time shooting one to be proficient with them. I have a G19. It’s thick to carry and doesn’t get taken out much.

P320s have higher bore lines and a safety record that makes me avoid them.

Staccatos are great if you want to drop the coin on them.

 

[Trr15]

Glock 19x gets my vote. It’s a Glock 19 with a longer grip and night sights. Fits my hand better than the standard 19. Ultra reliable with good accuracy. Planning on picking up a second one soon.

 

[Formidilosus]

- great in reliability in factory (or nearly) form. I want a Tikka pistol. Shoot it dirty for it's life and it still works

Despite people saying that Glocks are the Tikka’s of pistols- they are not. Not even close. Tikkas are extremely reliable, AND extremely high performing. Glocks are reliable, and mediocre performing. They can be used and shot to a very high level, but it takes significantly more skill and work to do so compared to other pistols.

Glocks are the Ruger M77’s of the pistol world. There is no Tikka equivalent in pistols when factoring in price- the closest would be a CZ Shadow 2.

What I write below is based upon actual shooting performance with scored targets and timers, under stress, and with relatively large amounts of people.

- prefer to have manual safety

This is a good thought. But also eliminates Glock.

That said, I've been looking into Glocks, Sig, and staccato.

- g19, g45, g48 - maybe g43 or 43x but they seem too small

The single stack Glocks are harder to shoot well- significantly so. The G45 is an excellent pistol of the type. But no manual thumb safety and does demand more of the shooter to equal the same performance.

- p320 m18, p320 x compact, p320 x carry, p365xl

Despite media and hysteria, the M18 with thumb safety is a good pistol. 100% you will want to swap the grip module for the Brouwer M1811 module. The P365 with thumb safety is a very pistol as well. Even though it is smaller, it is quite shootable.

- staccato c or cs

Very good guns. They are definitely the highest performing pistols on your list, by quite a margin. Reliability wise they are solid.

First question... Would I actually see any of the benefit of the staccato unless I became an extremely good shooter?

Yes, but maybe not noticed if you are just shooting cans in the backyard. You could say it like such- if you knew without a doubt you were going to be in a shooting, and you had any base skills at all- you would absolutely choose the Staccato’s.

Because the g45 and g48 seem to be variants of the g19, are they just as reliable?

The G45 yes. Functionally the G48 as well , but there have been more issues there.

Does a slimmer grip generally hurt or hinder shootability (g48 vs g45)? I realize it's probably just a personal thing

Yes. Regardless of hand size (within reason).

Is there much difference in reliability between the Glocks and the p320/p365? Much difference in reliability between the different p320 models?

This is a bit harder to address. The Gen 5 9mm Glocks are probably the “most reliable” pistols made. But that I mean- most mean rounds between stoppages (MRBS). However, functionally- there isn’t a real difference. It doesn’t really matter if it is 10,000 MRBS or 25,000 MRBS- both are beyond reliable enough.

Having not carried a pistol before... For backpack hunters where weight/space is a concern, would a subcompact be better or are the sizes of those above small enough to not be an issue? (Again, probably personal preference)

Yes.

Also, yes there is a range with rentals nearby and I'll do that before purchasing

That isn’t going to do much for you. You stated you aren’t a pistol shooter, don’t really have skill, and aren’t knowledgeable about them. How a pistol “feels” has almost zero bearing on how well it can or will be shot, and any relevance it does have is almost always to the negative- feelings lie and “good feeling pistols” often perform worse in actual measured shooting.


Based on your stated goals/use, I would be narrowing it down to either-

The P365 with thumb safety if weight is a primary driver

Or

The Staccato C or CS if max shooting performance is the main driver.




Or…. Keltec PMR 30.

 

[Formidilosus]

It always puzzles me when people say Glocks aren't shootable. That says more about the craftsman than the tool.

Isn’t that relative? Do you believe that a person with zero functional skill (the vast majority of people that carry and shoot pistols), and a USPS Grandmaster are meaning the same thing when they say “shootability”?

 

[Lawnboi]

I’d put a s&w shield plus on your list. Available with a safety. Subcompact, decent grip for a sub (regardless of what comfortable a bigger grip is easier to control for most) and has factory 10,12,15 round mags.

I’d also plan for an optic with whatever you want. IMO the difference in optic vs non optic is greater than an easier to shoot gun vs say a Glock.

 

[HighUintas]

Despite people saying that Glocks are the Tikka’s of pistols- they are not. Not even close. Tikkas are extremely reliable, AND extremely high performing. Glocks are reliable, and mediocre performing. They can be used and shot to a very high level, but it takes significantly more skill and work to do so compared to other pistols.

Glocks are the Ruger M77’s of the pistol world. There is no Tikka equivalent in pistols when factoring in price- the closest would be a CZ Shadow 2.

What I write below is based upon actual shooting performance with scored targets and timers, under stress, and with relatively large amounts of people.





This is a good thought. But also eliminates Glock.




The single stack Glocks are harder to shoot well- significantly so. The G45 is an excellent pistol of the type. But no manual thumb safety and does demand more of the shooter to equal the same performance.





Despite media and hysteria, the M18 with thumb safety is a good pistol. 100% you will want to swap the grip module for the Brouwer M1811 module. The P365 with thumb safety is a very pistol as well. Even though it is smaller, it is quite shootable.





Very good guns. They are definitely the highest performing pistols on your list, by quite a margin. Reliability wise they are solid.





Yes, but maybe not noticed if you are just shooting cans in the backyard. You could say it like such- if you knew without a doubt you were going to be in a shooting, and you had any base skills at all- you would absolutely choose the Staccato’s.





The G45 yes. Functionally the G48 as well , but there have been more issues there.




Yes. Regardless of hand size (within reason).





This is a bit harder to address. The Gen 5 9mm Glocks are probably the “most reliable” pistols made. But that I mean- most mean rounds between stoppages (MRBS). However, functionally- there isn’t a real difference. It doesn’t really matter if it is 10,000 MRBS or 25,000 MRBS- both are beyond reliable enough.





Yes.




That isn’t going to do much for you. You stated you aren’t a pistol shooter, don’t really have skill, and aren’t knowledgeable about them. How a pistol “feels” has almost zero bearing on how well it can or will be shot, and any relevance it does have is almost always to the negative- feelings lie and “good feeling pistols” often perform worse in actual measured shooting.


Based on your stated goals/use, I would be narrowing it down to either-

The P365 with thumb safety if weight is a primary driver

Or

The Staccato C or CS if max shooting performance is the main driver.




Or…. Keltec PMR 30.

Thank you, I appreciate it. This is all valuable information.

I saw a PMR30 in action... It is an interesting option.

Regarding the backpack hunting and size/weight for subcompact vs the ones I listed, did you intentionally answer yes to both those questions? I interpreted it as the size/weight of the options I listed wouldn't be an issue. I'm 5'10, 160lb for reference.

Also, just now looking into the p229 sa vs da/sa, for all the pistol shooting you've done and observed is there any inherent benefits to either action type for my purposes other than what is commonly stated as the pros and cons for the two? Or is it really just about training to the action type you shoot? And not just the p229, but other mdg/model as well like Canik mete or sp9

 

[IdahoBeav]

I recommend not going with a safety. You want the pistol ready to go when needed. A quality holster and safe handling practices eliminate the need for a safety in my opinion.

The G45 is a G19 slide on a G17 grip, i.e. short slide and 17+1 flush mag capacity. The G19x is essentially the same thing in coyote and with an eye hook on the grip. The grip also has compatibility issues with some mags.

The P365 is a great pistol, and Glock has not yet created a subcompact counterpart that matches its round capacity. The Glock subcompacts are all single stack.

 

[RockAndSage]

That isn’t going to do much for you. You stated you aren’t a pistol shooter, don’t really have skill, and aren’t knowledgeable about them. How a pistol “feels” has almost zero bearing on how well it can or will be shot

How a pistol 'feels' - I agree with your point on that. But he didn't suggest he'd be going to a gun store to fondle a dozen for feels. He said rental. And short of having an instructor walk him through the exact same selection of guns, doing it at a rental range himself will inform him best on which if these guns will work best for him. Each is a solid option for reliability, leaving the biggest variable the one he hits best with.

Handguns aren't the same as rifles - how they fit in your individual hand has far more impact on how well someone inherently shoots one, without significant training. They each sit in a person's hands differently, and point differently. A crappy match can be trained out, but it's far better to find the one that naturally fits, points, and shoots best, if someone's not going to be putting 10k rounds downrange on Bill drills, Mozambiques, or B-8s at 25yds.

 

[Nine Banger]

Is that a factory trigger option?

Yes

 

[180ls1]

Go shoot rentals at a range.

This is the answer. I've done it 3x times helping people buy a pistol.

Not once have they purchased the one they thought they would like after looking online or holding it in store.

 

[jpmulk]

You wont go wrong with Glock or sig. both great brands. Feel out both and pick the one you like.

For what you are asking for, I’d pick the sig 365 macro or the Glock 19. Both good midsized guns with good carrying compacity. Not too heavy but big enough to handle like a duty gun.

Id personally stay away from staccato. Heavier, more parts, gotta train in using a safety, expensive. Personally don’t get the appeal of them and I have friends that carry them.

 

[jpmulk]

Most importantly, I’d pay for a quality tactical shooting class. You will become way more proficient that way than plinking at the range on your own with no stress.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thank you, I appreciate it. This is all valuable information.

I saw a PMR30 in action... It is an interesting option.

Regarding the backpack hunting and size/weight for subcompact vs the ones I listed, did you intentionally answer yes to both those questions? I interpreted it as the size/weight of the options I listed wouldn't be an issue. I'm 5'10, 160lb for reference.

I’m not sure what part specifically you are referring to.

Also, just now looking into the p229 sa vs da/sa, for all the pistol shooting you've done and observed is there any inherent benefits to either action type for my purposes other than what is commonly stated as the pros and cons for the two? Or is it really just about training to the action type you shoot? And not just the p229, but other mdg/model as well like Canik mete or sp9

DA/SA is a silly solution to a non real problem. Single action only with a thumb safety, or striker fired- preferably with a thumb safety.

 

[JGRaider]

H&K VP9 gets my vote.

 

[Jake Larsen]

+1 for the 365X Legion. It’s on the X Macro frame. A perfect balance of size and capacity for your stated needs. Built in comp and alloy frame makes it handle and feel better than any handgun I’ve ever used. Runs the Buffalo Bore +P Outdoorsman loads fast and flat. If you’re not looking to spend that much, the comp x-macro is a non premium version of the same thing

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[Formidilosus]

How a pistol 'feels' - I agree with your point on that. But he didn't suggest he'd be going to a gun store to fondle a dozen for feels. He said rental. And short of having an instructor walk him through the exact same selection of guns, doing it at a rental range himself will inform him best on which if these guns will work best for him. Each is a solid option for reliability, leaving the biggest variable the one he hits best with.

I understand that is the common belief/advise- however; how does shooting a mag of ammo through a pistol, help the average male- that has no skill with a pistol, find the “best” one for him?
It’s equivalent to someone that can’t drive but wants to start rally car racing- and then telling them that jumping behind the wheel and test driving all of the options so they can find the one that “drives” best…. they have no idea what they are doing.


He/they have no skill level and no knowledge of what the differences are. There aren’t large enough differences in the pistols being discussed for the average adult male to matter in “feel”, and they won’t shoot any of them well enough at a rental range for the difference in shooting to show up…. Well, if they do, they will almost certainly choose a 1911 or 2011 (or a Shadow 2).
I’ve been involved in legitimate performance testing between pistols, and there are no surprises. People aren’t special, and baring a major permanent injury- everyone shoots the same guns best.

Handguns aren't the same as rifles - how they fit in your individual hand has far more impact on how well someone inherently shoots one, without significant training. They each sit in a person's hands differently, and point differently. A crappy match can be trained out, but it's far better to find the one that naturally fits, points, and shoots best, if someone's not going to be putting 10k rounds downrange on Bill drills, Mozambiques, or B-8s at 25yds.

I have significantly more experience with pistols and training others on pistols, than I do with rifles. Far more. Significant use of Beretta M9’s, Glock’s in 9mm, 40, and 45 from Gen 2 to G5, Sig P320/M17/M18, Sig P229 and 226’s, Sig P365, HK’s, various CZ’s, 1911’s, 2011’s, etc. etc.

People shoot the same pistols the best, regardless of how they think or feel about it. Well built 1911’s are unmatched yet in pistols. Then well built 2011’s. Then CZ’s like the Shadow 2- though a few will shoot them better than 2011’s after the first DA pull. People perform better with P320’s than they do Glocks. P365’s are shot better then G48 and 43’s. Etc etc.

Going by feel at a rental range, lots of)maybe most) will pick a HK VP9 or Sig 226/228/etc. Or some Walther.

 

[Stubborn_bowhunter]

+1 for the 365X Legion. It’s on the X Macro frame. A perfect balance of size and capacity for your stated needs. Built in comp and alloy frame makes it handle and feel better than any handgun I’ve ever used. Runs the Buffalo Bore +P Outdoorsman loads fast and flat. If you’re not looking to spend that much, the comp x-macro is a non premium version of the same thing

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How does this one feel weight wise? I really want one someday, but often talk myself out of it.