More changes to Montana hunting on the horizon.

[Dirks]

Following

 

[breaks_mud_man]

If they implement this it would just create a whole new set of problems. Mule deer is the foremost but I can see rifle season would be even more of a shit show.

 

[goathunter]

You can look it up on FWP website and/or watch the meeting videos. Thet are a mix of public land hunters/ranchers/etc

I saw that, just wondering if anyone knew personally.

 

[JjamesIII]

Pick between archery OR rifle. Not both.

Thoughts?

GoHunt article copied below:

Do you prefer hunting elk with a bow or with a rifle? If you hunt them in Montana, you might have to choose as the state’s Elk Management Citizen Advisory Group recently recommended a new requirement: make hunters choose between archery and rifle seasons to help “reduce crowding and pressure on public lands,” according to the Independent Record.
The 12-member advisory committee was formed this year by Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (MTFWP) Director Hank Woresch after controversies with the current season setting process and discussion over how to handle elk herds that are over objective and difficult to hunt because of the lack of public access. The committee was tasked with “developing elk management recommendations with a focus on improving relationships between public hunters, landowners and the department,” according to the Independent Record.
The committee knew that this new requirement would be somewhat controversial because the current process allows hunters to purchase both a general elk license and an archery stamp, resulting in an almost 11-week long hunting season with both seasons combined. If the recommendation is approved, those who previously hunted archery and general season will now have to decide which one they prefer, losing out on additional opportunity.
Along with the weapon requirement, the committee also recommended changing seasons to help with “overcrowding and hunting pressure on public land bull elk,” according to the members. The proposed change would have the archery season run for five weeks, beginning on Sept. 1 with a two- to three-week break before the start of the general season in late October. However, during that break, a private land cow elk hunt could be held.
While many supported the recommendations, those who did not say it would only divide hunters and possibly add more pressure to deer if hunters choose to focus on deer when they can’t hunt elk. Others like committee member Scott Van Dyken say it would just decrease the number of bowhunters, not actually do a thing about crowding during rifle season.
“I don’t see this working to relieve rifle pressure,” said Van Dyken.
Regardless, before anything can move beyond a recommendation, the committee wants MFWP to gather additional data and also poll hunters to see which weapon most would choose if they had to only choose one.
Also under scrutiny is the current shoulder seasons, which have been held over the last few years to help manage elk in over-objective districts. The committee says that these additional seasons have “mixed results” and recommended changes so that they can “be used more strategically,” according to the Independent Record. Specifically, the committee is recommending that shoulder seasons not begin until two weeks after general season, adding a shoulder season between archery and rifle season and only use shoulder seasons on private land.
“The intent is to reassess, not do away with (shoulder seasons),” said committee member Race King.
The elk working group will continue to meet twice per month as they work through additional recommendations. Stay tuned to GOHUNT for further updates.

Adding even more regulations to an already convoluted system. When are they going to stop? The whole system gets more dysfunctional the more they “fix” it. These agencies are so near sighted. Point creep, bonus points, youth seasons, and a regulation book that practically needs a lawyer/biologist/surveyor to decipher.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Pick between archery OR rifle. Not both ..... recommended a new requirement: make hunters choose between archery and rifle seasons to help “reduce crowding and pressure ......

I wish Arizona would do the same for its deer ......

 

[Flatgo]

I know one of the people on the advisory committee, he is an average joe hunter. They have had a lot of different conversations on multiple different management strategies. the choose your weapon was a way to reduce hunting pressure in different seasons. I do not believe they want to implement it, but fwp has screwed up elk management so bad this is one of the options they are exploring to help out. i think ultimately it comes down to what's opportunity, hunting 3 months and having a 5% success rate or hunting 5 days and having a 15% success rate. I think most can agree the current seasons are not working great. my personal experience is it has become a lot harder to kill the last 5 years than the 5 years before.

 

[Pony Soldier]

The unknown in our country is the collapse of the beetle kill pine and the effects on the elk paths. The major change I believe is the shoulder seasons which focus the wrath of fwp on the winter elk herd which may be a concentration of 2-4 hunting districts due to migration. Because the biologists have multiple districts to manage they tend to be focused on problems rather than management. Ours admitted to never have been in the district. The one for the district I live in admitted that not only had she never been there but hadn't been out of the office in the last 5 years. I maintain that you can't manage elk under a crisis management plan or a collection of assumptions.

The shoulder season in 17 reduced our local elk herds by 50%. For some reason the calf crop was less than that. Things are recovering but very slowly.

Up to 2017 the population had been very steady since the 80s. The late 80s was the last time I saw an elk with a collar for the tracking studies funded by feds over the transmission lines from coalstrip 4.

Without reasonable understanding, fwp tends to create problems by attempting to solve problems.
The answer may be to increase the number of field bios and then listen to them. Another may be to enlist help from a network of ranchers that live with the elk to address changes of the herds from year to year - season to season.

Serious predator management might be another concept.

 

[southLA]

I would be ok with pick your weapon as long as tag fees came down considerably.

 

[ThunderJack49]

Splitting and shortening the rifle seasons to 10 days, one early and one late, and pick your season would greatly improve hunting during the rifle seasons.

I wonder what they will do with the new muzzleloader season?

Sounds like that would really concentrate hunting pressure. Ever seen opening weekend?

 

[egbateson]

I think, like many, that this proposal will only drive up the number of rifle hunters and likely result in fewer elk killed. It’s the overall objective to bring herd numbers down and in line with FWP numbers?

 

[sneaky]

I doubt it'll jack up rifle numbers because they can cap those numbers to prevent everybody from picking that option it's no different than Idaho, pick an animal you want to hunt then pick your weapon. It's really not that hard. Montana has bigger issues than picking a weapon.

 

[Preston]

Sounds like that would really concentrate hunting pressure. Ever seen opening weekend?

Yes, I have, been on 9-10 openings weekends from 2003 until 2020, didn’t get to hunt in 2021. Usually hunt early to mid season. It seems like every year the pressure is different

 

[MT257]

I would be ok with pick your weapon as long as tag fees came down considerably.

That won’t happen for NR no matter what happens here. They already have sold out in the last few years from the draw.

 

[egbateson]

I doubt it'll jack up rifle numbers because they can cap those numbers to prevent everybody from picking that option it's no different than Idaho, pick an animal you want to hunt then pick your weapon. It's really not that hard. Montana has bigger issues than picking a weapon.

Well like earlier stated it will force meat hunters to go with what they deem easiest to harvest with. I prefer to bow hunt, but when rubber hits the road I have to put an elk in my freezer every year. Post rut bulls are a lot more predictable and patternable for me than rutting ones. I would have to choose rifle, unless I had enough bonus points for a good archery tag. One thought I had would be if you draw a LE tag you get both seasons.

 

[alecvg]

This may need to be implemented in the Big Hole or Dillon areas where Randy Newburg managed to get everyone to hunt, but I have never had a real issue with crowding anywhere else in the state. I run into a few people here and there, and obviously see a pile of road hunters. I haven't had any issue finding bulls or bucks on public land. Killed a mature bull after seeing 18 other bulls the first couple weeks of rifle season last year, shot a great buck too. Saw very few hunters in the field. Same story year after year.

 

[IdahoHntr]

I don't have a ton of skin in the game, but I still don't understand how picking your weapon could increase the pressure. Everybody currently gets to hunt the rifle season. If you pick your weapon then at least some of those people will choose archery and now less than everybody will be able to hunt the rifle season. How does less people having the tag equate to more pressure? I could see how you can argue that it will help archery hunters more than rifle hunters, but I can't see a scenario where this doesn't help both groups.

 

[bow_dozer]

This may need to be implemented in the Big Hole or Dillon areas where Randy Newburg managed to get everyone to hunt, but I have never had a real issue with crowding anywhere else in the state. I run into a few people here and there, and obviously see a pile of road hunters. I haven't had any issue finding bulls or bucks on public land. Killed a mature bull after seeing 18 other bulls the first couple weeks of rifle season last year, shot a great buck too. Saw very few hunters in the field. Same story year after year.

Agree, if people use glass and are willing to work for it. Most guys arn't willing or don't know how much it takes to get to the bulls.
Saw bulls every day in rifle this year even with lack of cold/snow. Did bump into a couple guys in the field throughout season.
Have drove thru breaks, tendoys, elkhorns etc.... Crazy how many people think an elk is going to jump into their vehicle or run across the road.

I'm sure its only due time before more restrictions and laws come, but don't let them fool you. Its not for the betterment and more bull elk. If that's the case why don't they focus on wolf harvest?
"They only prey on the sick and weak elk" Right.....

If we want restrictions, why don't we restrict landowner tag? They let a certain number of people harvest a cow each year in reward for their bull tags?

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

This may need to be implemented in the Big Hole or Dillon areas where Randy Newburg managed to get everyone to hunt, but I have never had a real issue with crowding anywhere else in the state. I run into a few people here and there, and obviously see a pile of road hunters. I haven't had any issue finding bulls or bucks on public land. Killed a mature bull after seeing 18 other bulls the first couple weeks of rifle season last year, shot a great buck too. Saw very few hunters in the field. Same story year after year.

Agreed. I’ve never had an issue either, hunted a lot of different areas in the state. I don’t think any of this is actually about pressure though.

 

[S.Clancy]

Agreed. I’ve never had an issue either, hunted a lot of different areas in the state. I don’t think any of this is actually about pressure though.

This is coming from someone who's lived here my whole life and hunted here for 23 yrs. Pressure has definitely increased across the state, no doubt. You can still find areas with less, or no, pressure but its more difficult now than previously.

Being in the woods alot in the fall, I end up talking with other hunters. The number 1 issue they have is pressure. So its not like this recommendation is coming out of left field.

I think, given how our land ownership and types of landowners has changed over the lasr 25 yrs, something like this is inevitable. I dont see access to private lands improving in the future, so more and more people will rely on public lands. The voices to decrease pressure will just increase over time.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

This is coming from someone who's lived here my whole life and hunted here for 23 yrs. Pressure has definitely increased across the state, no doubt. You can still find areas with less, or no, pressure but its more difficult now than previously.

Being in the woods alot in the fall, I end up talking with other hunters. The number 1 issue they have is pressure. So its not like this recommendation is coming out of left field.

I think, given how our land ownership and types of landowners has changed over the lasr 25 yrs, something like this is inevitable. I dont see access to private lands improving in the future, so more and more people will rely on public lands. The voices to decrease pressure will just increase over time.

You’d definitely know better than me, only have about 6-7 years of experience in MT. I’m not partial either way, as a NR archery hunter, it’ll affect me zero. I think it’ll just affect resident hunters and rifle hunters. As for the shoulder seasons, I wish they would go away.