Montana season change proposal

[brockel]

I am quite familiar with what is happening in Montana.

If you “want to see more mature animals” then just say “I don’t care about numbers, or herd “health”- I just want a trophy from the truck”.

I’d argue that keeping rifle rut hunting plays more into the “just wanting a trophy from the truck”. Pretty easy to kill a mule deer buck from the pickup in November. Not as simple in October.

 

[cgasner1]

Based on what?

We could start with draw odds? They have gone to hell maybe from added pressure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[t_carlson]

This is a stupid proposal.

 

[Randy11]

This is a stupid proposal.

Why?

 

[Formidilosus]

This is condescending bullshit.

You obviously are woefully unaware of what's happening in MT. Some of us actually DO live here, and have seen the spiral of the last 20-30 years.

You are making assumptions about where I live. Again- where have you lived or hunted extensively that shortening a season results in less pressure? Every single state that has shortened seasons have found out that more animals are killed, because people shoot the first animal they see. That’s one issue. The second issue, is that there are a lot of people that have to choose between elk not in the east, and deer in the east. Separate the seasons and they don’t have to choose.

The problem in is of eastern Montana for a healthy herd is deer numbers. Deer numbers (as far as humans) are almost entirely driven by female take. Stop shooting does, more deer on the land. You can have 50 deer per square mile and it won’t matter how many hunters are pressuring them if they can’t shoot them. Rut or no rut hunting doesn’t change that.

Again, just admit that you would rather less hunting time and opportunity so that you can see bigger deer, easier. My issue is that you, and everyone else screaming “we have to do something” are almost universally focused on bucks. It’s just antlers to you. What about all the people- which are the majority, that want to be able to hunt deer in the rut and don’t care about antlers?

 

[Formidilosus]

We could start with draw odds? They have gone to hell maybe from added pressure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Draw odds for elk in eastern Montana- in units where deer are general tags, have gone to hell?

 

[cgasner1]

Go rattle in a whitetail then


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fire_9]

No it won’t. I’ve hunted the Custer.




What does where I live in Montana have to do with deer hunting in eastern MT? I average a bit more than 3 weeks a year hunting the east. Shortening the season only pushes more people to the same spots in a shorter time, and separating elk and deer seasons only makes it where more people can hunt deer in the east. Think through this.

I know everyone wants to talk about region 6 and 7 but I would include the central part of the state as well where there most certainly has been an increase in elk tags available. I agree cutting doe tags is one of the best things we can do but I also think this can relieve some of the pressure on mule deer. Do you think the majority of people will still choose to hunt MD in october or hunt WT in november?

What year did you start hunting the Custer?

 

[brockel]

Draw odds for elk in eastern Montana- in units where deer are general tags, have gone to hell?

Absolutely

 

[t_carlson]

Why?

1) I have a suspicion this will be utilized to further opportunity on private land while further limiting opportunity on public land.

2) As long as the FWP is intent on killing every deer in CWD zones, there will not be much point in any "management" as different hot spots pop up around the state and the FWP authorizes full-scale slaughter. Remember 324? What is the point of restricting opportunity when the FWP will burn it to the ground on a whim?

3) What the state really needs is to get away from the "one size fits all" management model. Yeah, the Breaks deer get hammered when the rut starts. But that is not true state-wide. If you limit seasons to Oct. 31 in NW MT, you might have a few more big bucks alive, but they will get much, much harder to kill. I don't have a use for imaginary deer populations. I want deer I can kill.

4) Finally, and most important, the FWP is so terrible at doing nearly anything, I have zero confidence in their ability to execute this plan, even if I agreed with it.

 

[finner]

I am quite familiar with what is happening in Montana.

If you “want to see more mature animals” then just say “I don’t care about numbers, or herd “health”- I just want a trophy from the truck”.

Because that’s what it is. Thats ignoring why you wanting to see more mature animals, should matter more than the vast majority that just want to hunt.

Again- why does every single state have to be a trophy state? Why can’t one be for normal hunters. There are already “trophy” units you can apply for.

Respectfully, I disagree. That's painting with a pretty broad brush. I don't hunt from a truck and never have. Wanting to see more mature animals on the landscape and wanting healthy mule deer herds aren't mutually exclusive priorities. The fact is, Eastern and Central Montana are stupid easy places to kill bucks in November. Either we limit opportunity or we limit success rates through season date changes. Personally, I'm confident enough in my non-truck hunting abilities to be happy with the latter.

 

[Formidilosus]

Go rattle in a whitetail then


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So because you want to see big bucks in general units, everyone else should go screw themselves? And, if that’s what you want, do you only put in and hunt draw units?

 

[Randy11]

1) I have a suspicion this will be utilized to further opportunity on private land while further limiting opportunity on public land.

2) As long as the FWP is intent on killing every deer in CWD zones, there will not be much point in any "management" as different hot spots pop up around the state and the FWP authorizes full-scale slaughter. Remember 324? What is the point of restricting opportunity when the FWP will burn it to the ground on a whim?

3) What the state really needs is to get away from the "one size fits all" management model. Yeah, the Breaks deer get hammered when the rut starts. But that is not true state-wide. If you limit seasons to Oct. 31 in NW MT, you might have a few more big bucks alive, but they will get much, much harder to kill. I don't have a use for imaginary deer populations. I want deer I can kill.

4) Finally, and most important, the FWP is so terrible at doing nearly anything, I have zero confidence in their ability to execute this plan, even if I agreed with it.

These are good points.

If you have a specific concern on number 1, I'd love to hear it. PM or email is fine. That's definitely not the goal of the group and I want to be very cautious from that angle.

 

[cgasner1]

I want to see deer the decline in the last 5-6 years in eastern mt is insane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

Respectfully, I disagree. That's painting with a pretty broad brush. I don't hunt from a truck and never have. Wanting to see more mature animals on the landscape and wanting healthy mule deer herds aren't mutually exclusive priorities.

They aren’t mutually exclusive, but they aren’t the same either.
Again- age of bucks has zero to do with “healthy mule deer herds”. A herd can be healthy with no 4+ year old bucks.

The fact is, Eastern and Central Montana are stupid easy places to kill bucks in November.

And that’s bad why?

Either we limit opportunity or we limit success rates through season date changes.

But, you don’t have to do either. Mike deer numbers are driven by doe numbers, not older buck numbers

 

[brockel]

People act like this is going to a very restricted draw and they will never get to hunt Montana again. Losing a week and still having a general tag isn’t that big of a deal. If you want to have an easy rut hunt just say that but don’t play the game of saying lost opportunity.

 

[Schaaf]

I want to see deer the decline in the last 5-6 years in eastern mt is insane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spring surveys show Region 6 mule deer are down 35% from 2023. More than half of the region is hovering around 6 bucks:100 does.

 

[Geewhiz]

This is condescending bullshit.

You obviously are woefully unaware of what's happening in MT. Some of us actually DO live here, and have seen the spiral of the last 20-30 years.

Hey bud how about watching your language. No need to get ugly just because someone doesn't agree with the agenda you're trying to ramrod.

SE MT is one of the most popular areas in the state to hunt elk right now.

False. And while were discussing this, a major contributing factor to the numbers of hunters in SE MT is largely due to @Randy11 's buddy randy newberg burning spots right and left, and then proceeding to whine about it. Prove me wrong.

 

[finner]

They aren’t mutually exclusive, but they aren’t the same either.
Again- age of bucks has zero to do with “healthy mule deer herds”. A herd can be healthy with no 4+ year old bucks.





And that’s bad why?




But, you don’t have to do either. Mike deer numbers are driven by doe numbers, not older buck numbers

I don't disagree that herd health and buck age class structure have little to do with one another. I've spent a boatload of time writing comment letters against FWP granting bull permits to landowners "to reduce crop damage" in units with subpar-bull cow ratios.

But that doesn't mean having older bucks on the landscape isn't a valid priority. It may not be yours, and that's fine. But if I'm given the chance between having to put in to hunt mule deer every year in my home state and having a more restricted window to do so, I'll choose the latter ten times out of ten.

 

[Formidilosus]

People act like this is going to a very restricted draw and they will never get to hunt Montana again. Losing a week and still having a general tag isn’t that big of a deal. If you want to have an easy rut hunt just say that but don’t play the game of saying lost opportunity.

People do in fact want to hunt bucks in the rut- it’s fun. Whether I do it or not is immaterial. It is the only state that it can be done OTC, and the only reason to remove that is “for big bucks, easier”.